A quick uni question that I hope can be answered

[Lotstodo]

I have two sons, one is a high-flyer at one of the best universities in the country. Second son is about to apply to universities. His A level grades, will probably be BCC. He has asked me a question that I cannot answer. What is the difference between a course at a top university that has entry level of AAA and a course at a university that is 50th in the country where entry requirement is done on points and the points are nowhere as near as AAA requirement? If the course is the same subject and is BA/Bsc then is the course exactly the same. He is feeling despondent about going to university as he feels that it is going to cost a lot of money via student loan. He is not at all jealous of his brother as he knows that as well as the brains he also has made the commitment over the years and always made maxcimum effort when at school but second son is wondering whether it would be worthwhile going to a third rate uni so to speak.

Formally the external examining system means that all courses are equivalent (if not the same). Thus a first from a lower ranked uni is "as good as" one from oxbridge. As you move down the rankings, weaker unis just award less first and 2.1s reflecting the fact that their student body has further to go.

In practice, however, it is not as simple as that. First degrees are equivalent but not the same. In practice this means that the scope for independent thinking and learning is much greater in the top places. Thus if you go to a lower ranked place you will end up knowing and understanding the same things but will have been more spoonfed. - so arguably a bit less prepared for learning different things on the job. Second some employers are prejudiced and value some degrees more than others. (Ironically the btter ones (top city firms, public sector etc) don't as they have equal ops policies)

What is the best thing to do? There are quite a few v.good unis around that are under-rated by potential students. This means that you can get a good bargain in times of quality of ed per ucas point. If you tell us the subject then myself and other MNs acadademics may be able to help

Thank you so much for your help so far w & c. My son seems to think that as the tuition fees are the same and accomodation etc. is it really worth it if he can only go to one he has enough points for as it is not really a choice. Any further help re unis would be great and much appreciated. He is thinking of History, or History with Politics or Law or something similar. I'm UCASSED out from looking at uni websites. I'm confused.

Lotsdo - we are in the same situation. DS1 sailed through school (all As); Russell Group university and top ranking course (easy 2.1) and has just started highly paid job (2000 applicants for 18 places). DS2 is likely to come out with BCC or CCC for A2 and is interested in a degree in similar subject area to DS1.
However, DS2 is looking forward to going to university and the ones he has applied to have a good reputation despite the lower course requirements. We are convinced that with DS2's commitment to everything he has done over the years and his intelligence (though not intellectual brilliance) that he will be able to find a worthwhile career to suit at the end.
If he is interested in doing a combined degree you will find that entrance requirements are often lower than for single subjects. It is worth looking carefully through all the prospectuses/websites for slightly "unusual" courses which have much the same content as more conventionally named courses.

The history and politics degree at essex has 300 points (BB or BC). the politics dept at essex is arguably one of the best in the country; most of the talking heads that you see round election time are academics there. Essex is also great for all social sciences

history and politics see link here

A lot of students are currently concerned about the "value for money" of their degrees. It really depends which subject he is intending to study as well as the university. Some universities (like Essex as has already been stated) have outstanding departments for some subjects, but not necessarily all subjects. He needs to aim for a Department with an excellent reputation even if the University overall is lower down the table.

If the student loan/debt problem is seriously worrying him then it would be worth him considering doing a degree with The Open University and working part-time either to ensure he ends up with no debt - or to get experience in something related to what he is studying. Employers realize the commitment needed to study in this way and experience gained can also help employment prospects later.

I'm not surprised that students are looking for added value. Now that they have to pay several thousand pounds in fees, they can reasonably expect value for their money. DS1 was not impressed by his top rated course - very little contact with lecturing staff/ seminars conducted by PGs with poor language skills etc. A lot of departments in the better universities rest on their laurels as far as teaching is concerned, taking in the students with 3 As and sending them out with 2.1s three years later, with very little effort on the part of the university.

I think that he ought to look at the ones that he wants to go to and see the pecentage that get jobs afterwards with his subjects.