How to get into a top uni after failing 1st year of ALevel Maths? Is it possible?

[Ragatha]

DS is planning on History or Philosophy at University and looks set to get A or A* in History and Computing A Levels. He's academic, loves writing and wants to go to a top uni, and his Tutor agrees he should be aiming high.

But... he just failed his first year of A Level maths and has been chucked off the course. It was the wrong choice of A Level, he should have chosen something essay based.

What now? Does anyone have any advice?

The college are examining what's possible although they've said doing a third year with them is extremely unlikely. They seem keen on EPQs but an EPQ alone isn't going to open doors to Edinburgh, Durham, Bristol or UCL etc - is it?

I wondered if anyone else has any advice on what we should be looking at, or has been in the same position?

DS is really keen to go to a good uni, and seems happy enough about doing a third year to make it possible if needs be.

Get him to check what he really wants to do and how will the degree get him there.
There’s a terrible trend of teachers, tutors, schools and institutions pressing young people to go to university as it enhances their reputation. It leaves the young person with crippling debt if they don’t have a good plan or luck. It’s a lottery.
There are new industries starting up with technologies and tools that they need to master. They can do university courses while they train and earn while they learn.
The interest rates on loans and the compound interest are worse than bank loans.

I’m so confused about how you say he might have to go full time. What is a dedicated academic student who wants to get into a hour university doing not studying full time? I know I don’t really understand the system, it’s always seemed very complicated to me.

My son retook Biology to get the grade he needed for Exeter to do neuroscience
so 2 Alevel results one year and one Alevel the next

He got in

Bristol accept the results from resits

Family experience of this too

I did an EPQ and can tell you that universities don't regard it as an equivalent to an A-level, so I wouldn't bother with that - the long coursework of the EPQ would take away from time studying for other subjects without making up for the problem.

Definitely, to get into a good uni he needs 3 A-levels. Could he take a "gap year" to finish? Eg in year 13 finish the other 2 A-levels and do a new AS-level in a new subject, then over the "gap year" do the A2-level of the new subject?

Definitely the top universities don't look down on a gap year at all, so I think that approach would still get him 3 great A-level grades.

The only issue with that approach is he'd be applying to uni in the start of his gap year with 2 A-levels and 1 AS-level, so he'd need to give a compelling explanation for that in his personal statement that doesn't say that he failed the maths AS-level!

Although my son just told the truth ie that he was retaking one Alevel

I assume they mean a minimum number of F2F hours so the college get their funding.

Exactly. I teach this. It is HARD! Often referred to as the first year of a linguistics degree.

If he's good at essay writing, Eng Lit maybe? Not easy either and a LOT of reading. But might play to his strengths. 2 exam papers (2 essays on one paper, 3 essays on the other).

I'd be curious to know what subjects these are (just genuinely curious).

In my school in one year they disastrously attempted this with an MFL and results plummeted and they regularly do it with music because of numbers. All otehr subjects have resisted or said it's not possible. This isn't just about timetabling - the subjects are linear. You can't do the second year's content without knowing the first. The only exception of the four subjects I have taught is , at a push, English Lit , which is more skills based but I still think it's a stretch.

Year 13 isn't actually anywhere approaching a year either. Year 12 'content' is finished in late July! I'd be wary of any subject that claims it can be done in a year like this.

I’d sign him up for an another subject via the online A level providers - start him now on an intensive 1 year course in a related topic to his degree topic. It will mean working intensively all summer but if he really wants it, he will have to apply himself. Speak to school/college and ask if they would be willing to allow him to sit the exam at the school, paying as an external candidate (they may let him join year 2 if you chose a subject/board that they offer) as that would mean he would be sitting the exam in a setting he is familiar with. His ND would mean that you are asking for a reasonable accommodation. Treat it as a blip, not a drama, and see if school would meet you half way on this.

Alternatively, he can do the A level over 2 years, take a year out and apply next year with grades in hand for the two he has already sat and a conditional offer for the 3rd that he can sit at an external centre? ND candidates often benefit from a year out esp if they can spend the time working/volunteering as it gives them time to do a bit of the extra growing up. Many students are 19 when starting.

@Ragatha I think you just need to make sure what’s offered by the school
can meet his requirements. I do know of dc taking 3 years to do 3 A levels but no change of subject. If they can timetable something, what would it be? I know unis accept resits and other sittings but of course the competitiveness of the application might be affected - accepting an application and making an offer aren’t the same thing. However choosing a less competitive course will help but History is usually competitive. Philosophy less so I would think.

Could he take a "gap year" to finish? Eg in year 13 finish the other 2 A-levels and do a new AS-level in a new subject, then over the "gap year" do the A2-level of the new subject?

Yes, that's exactly what he's doing, but with the EPQ (which he is really keen to do) rather than an AS level.

It's not true that no universities recognise EPQs. Some do, some don't.

The ones that do that I've found so far, will typically make the overall grade offer one grade lower if you've done well in the EPQ. Leeds, York, Cardiff and Sheffield all do this for example.

I've heard that some others simply add the EPQ score to the UCAS grade score for A Levels, but I've not come across any that do that yet.

You're right, I'm discovering that some unis are absolutely fine about doing A Levels over 3 years, which is a huge relief! If we can find a way to make that happen it means all is not lost!

He was studying full time when he was doing 3 A Levels. As he has to drop Maths that leaves him with a gap in his timetable. That could be filled by - say - Year 1 of an A Level, but that's not being offered to us just now.

It could also be filled by an EPQ.

He needs to be full time for the college to get funding as I understand it.

I think you might also be best to get your son to spread his net a bit and accept he may just not be capable of what he is hoping for, not that he’s not bright but given the level of competition there will be for the places. Maybe apply for 3 or 4 of his aspirational choices and 1 or 2 less of a stretch.

Someone who’s got the A levels in 2 years, I would expect would get the places over someone who took 3, unless extenuating circumstances such as sickness.

Lancaster is ranked in the Top 10 and is an excellent university. They reduce their entry requirements by a grade for EPQ at grade B upwards (but don't give points for EPQ). They operate a major/minor system so in year 1 you do your major and then alongside that you study your minor. In many cases you can switch to your minor in part 2 (years 2 and 3) if you have passed it in part 1. So your DS could apply for history and take computer science as his minor and then switch to computer science full time in part 2. There are only a few subjects such as medicine and engineering where you don't take a minor alongside your major.

They also accept resits in some situations.

Lancaster is only not part of the Russell Group because it decided not to join. Its an excellent university with a guarantee of on campus accommodation (in many cases campus accommodation also available in later years), a beautiful green and wooded campus and a collegiate system like Oxbridge and Durham which means it has a fantastic community feel and makes it easier IMO to make friends and settle. It's 15 minutes to the sea and half an hour to the Lake District. You can see both from campus.

Keep in mind that just because your son is targeting certain universities there is no guarantee of an offer even with top grades. DC was rejected from St Andrews with straight A star predictions and loads of extra curricular stuff and supra curricular very relevant to their subject. Also a very outgoing and personable kid. BF's son was rejected from four of his choices with Astar Astar A (he ultimately went to Warwick, his only offer, and initially really struggled because there was limited social activity - he said the library was generally busier than the SU and he was put into a flat with all international students who didn't mix and one non-international student who never left his room).

Also keep in mind that with the EPQ you can score fairly poorly for writing a fantastic essay. The marking for EPQ is not about the end result as much as it's about the process. You get marks for basically logging your process and your research and meeting with the tutor. You can't just blitz it in your spare time for example and it can't be a topic related to one of your A levels. IMO it's a bit of a waste of a very significant amount of time and that time would be better focused on the A levels themselves. In your DS's case it sounds like he would be better off doing core maths. He would get the same points as for the EPQ and he would walk it having done the first year of maths. It's sort of like an A/O Level in old money. A step between GCSE and A level.

I was thinking about core maths - maybe 2 a levels and core maths this year and then one a level and an epq the year after? DD did an epq in her gap year to keep her hand in and it was seen as a positive by admissions tutors after a levels didn't go as expected.

Maths skills are useful for social and economic history so I can see that being looked on favourably

I think Durham was on his list? I know someone who got into Durham with resit grades so it is a possibility and her brother is currently resitting 2 subjects and holding offers from St Andrews and Durham.

@Londonmummy66 To be fair though, this isn’t a resit. It’s a complete change of subject. So he’s got to get taught 1 new A level in a year during y14 or maybe during y13? I think the EPQ should be done of it’s the y14 solution. Whether he could join a y12 class for the y12 work for the new A level isn’t known and then stay into y14 for the second year of the course. It’s also then not going to be multiple settings for the exams either. It is a bit of a conundrum!

I realise that - I was simply pointing out that some really good hard to get into unis allow resits so someone getting good grades first time round but with a blip is likely to also be considered.

@Londonmummy66 Yes but it’s not a resit.

Regarding Lancaster, I don't think they do operate the major/minor system anymore. My dd is just finishing y1 and I think her year is the last year to get that option. You can still do some joint mixed courses but not many, definitely not cs and history.

OP, I'm not sure what to suggest regarding your ds. I know that a friend of dd's at a large 6th form college restarted y12 doing 3 completely different a levels but I don't know about just one.

I'd be tempted to look at other colleges and restart the two and choose a new a level. The chances are that the stuff will be taught in a different order/may be completely different if it's a different exam board so less chance of boredom setting in. But obviously it requires a certain amount of courage to start somewhere new.

@Sweetpeasaremadeforbees I might look at that solution too. Probably easier than dealing with the current school if they aren’t accommodating. That has the advantage of one sitting for exams and timetabled 3 subjects. Difficult to move though if there’s nowhere suitable.