Durham, York, Bristol for History - which ones to firm and insure?

[easterb]

The countdown to finalising choices on UCAS has started and DS casually mentioned over dinner that he’s still not sure! He likes them all (but not bowled over by any one of them).

Anyone with DCs studying History at any of these Unis with feedback?

Which combo would you choose??

Did he go to the applicant days? It’s his choice, not randoms on mumsnet

I studied History at Bristol decades ago. It was the unmaking of me. Avoid.

But things to look out for - how many lectures a week? Was it just seven hours of lectures, with nothing to do on a Monday at all, so the week never gets going? That's how I found it. No obvious job at the end of it - but nowadays he'll be in significant debt at the end of it. If he likes History, why not watch Simon Schama's documentary on iPlayer? Christopher Hibbert's book on it, or Kenneth Clark's Civilisation. Sir Roy Strong's book. Do all that and you'll know more History than I did after I graduated with a 2:1.

Any group studies at all? Opportunities to mix with other students via the work, or do they all just show up at lectures which is essentially taking dictation as a lecturer reads out from his pre-prepared nots. Then go off and write your essay all by yourself and that's it for three years.

I found Bristol the city very bland and apathetic, the city has no vibe, no edge or personality. Suicide rate quite high frankly. Not very sympathetic re mental health but the place is pretty awful anyway - to be fair, not everyone reacts to it this way, but those who do really do.

I'd turned down a place at York after being interviewed cos it wasn't high ranking enough - what a fool I was. Durham might be okay but a lot of these top ranking unis are set in cities that are nice to visit but not necessarily exciting to live. It's three years of your life, remember.

DD studied history at York and now makes money off history vids on YouTube.

My son is at Durham and loves it, They are all good choices though, If he really doesn’t have a preference get him to have a look at the unit options for the course.

Very varied institutions and cities.

Where would they rather live? How do they feel about Durham in particular given how the uni operates?

Would they want a lively place (Bristol the most lively)?

As a PP has said, check the contact hours per week. Given the choice of universities, I would choose Durham, but it comes down to what your DS wants from a university,

While @NewspaperTaxis' view is their experience and as such valid of course, I would suggest that it is just one view. As @Pinkissmart says, it’s your son’s choice.

There will be people who studied history at Bristol who did love it tbh. I went to Bristol and I loved lots of aspects of my time there. And a low number of contact hours and no obvious job role at the end will be a history degree anywhere tbh. I cannot imagine Durham and York are any different.

Low contact hours means an expectation of a lot of self-study, which really suits some people.

@easterb a friend’s DC did history at York and enjoyed it so much they stayed and did a masters. They now have a great job role tho tbh it’s something of a swerve from history – relating to sustainability.

I would offer these thoughts:

• All three are not cheap for accommodation but Bristol perhaps the most ££
• Durham is a very small city and the collegiate nature of the uni may appeal or not
• York also offers a collegiate system to some extent
• Bristol is the only one that has a real big city feel
• Where are you? The three are a fair way distant from each other so cannot all be near you, and you may want to consider that (or you may not; but I liked being able to watch son's sports matches on a regular)
• Durham is excellent for sport if that's of interest

This may be or may not be helpful but ultimately it’s your son’s choice. Did he really not have a view?

i know quite a few kids at Bristol at the moment because it gives contextual offers to ds’s school, and they are all without exception having a blast. I love it as a city because of its music scene. The accommodation situation is frightening but the ones I know have been ok.

The three are reasonably far apart, does that influence them for or against?

Id look at the research interests of the lecturers. Does your child have a field of history they already love? Is there a match there?

My DD was at Bristol, not for History, but several of her friends were doing History. It used to be a very competitive course and these young people got very good jobs after university. A ex boyfriend of hers also studied history at Durham and became a barrister. I think these universities do have students who are ambitious and clever. No doubt York too but I don’t know anyone who went there. I suspect for DDs friends it was more about where the course might lead and not quite so much course content. I would say the ex boyfriend was one of the brightest people I’ve met and was unlucky not to get to Oxford. I’ve also no doubt these universities produce great grads.

I would say Bristol is a compact city as far as students go! Many either live near the university in expensive leafy Clifton village, or nearer the city centre, for year 2-3 and many live in the equally leafy Stoke Bishop halls in their first year. It’s not necessary to go to other areas! It has all the good things about a city and is more varied than Durham or York I think. DD enjoyed Bristol and had turned down Durham who offered her a place.

York is great. Perfect size city for students, campus university, excellent teaching.

I know a p doing history at York and loves it. They do about 8 hours a week between lectures and seminars but lots of reading involved .
as for job prospects my dd2 did a joint honours degree in ancient history and archaeology and UoL then a masters in sustainable heritage management and is now a heritage officer for a trust. Most of her course mates followed up with a masters of some sort and they all have good jobs
Your child has to be enthusiastic about where they want to go and what they want to do , otherwise I’d suggest a gap year maybe if he’s not bowled over?
Maybe get him to write a list of pros and cons for each what he likes about them ( course content , location , available opportunities, societies, living costs etc) Mine wrote to the course leaders with a list of questions of their courses and also took into account their responses and the way they responded ( whether they were friendly , informative , offered a video call to answer any further questions etc) just to get a feel for the department.
she also looked at cohort size.
good luck .

Durham will open more doors post graduation as the milk round (where potential employers visit the uni) is full of very high level companies. It’s not just about the university, it’s about the potential connections for your future that you can make. Going to somewhere like Durham (and with History, going to a college in the Bailey like Castle (University College) , Hatfield , St John’s will be full of people who will have very good connections or will become good connections in the future

Does it not also depend on the grades required - no point having an insurance choice with really aspirational grades.

DS is just finishing in Bristol (not history) and he’s had a good time. He has quite bad MH issues but the uni have been very understanding and accommodating (his issues were there long before uni).

He’s made really good friends and is well in to the music scene. It’s horses for courses though as with any uni it depends on who you meet in halls/on your course etc.

It’s an expensive city though, rents can be a good £150 more per month than up north and no better housing stock.

@NewspaperTaxis- my DS’s experience has been the total opposite to yours. Bristol has a great vibe and they’ve been amazing with his mental health issues. It’s changed a lot in that regard.
You can’t compare a city/uni now to how it was years ago. I went back to my uni city when we were looking at unis for DS and it had totally changed and the campus practically rebuilt.

If I am reading the UCAS website correctly, it indicates History BA usual offers are AstarAA at Durham (and students typically achieve that grade profile), AAA offers at Bristol (and students typically achieve that grade profile) and AAA offers at York (with students typically achieving AAB). This suggests Durham would not be an insurance choice.

Durham and York both have around 16,000 undergrads, Bristol is bigger at around 24,000 undergrads, so that may affect scope and scale of available societies. York and Durham are both collegiate which breaks down the social units and can help with the transition to uni.

As a 'generalist' humanities degree with a wide range of career paths (see link below), it can be helpful for students to be researching next step options from early on, eg careers service support, and engaging in opportunities to develop and showcase non-academic skills, eg societies, sports etc, so it is worth thinking about those aspects.

www.prospects.ac.uk/careers-advice/what-can-i-do-with-my-degree/history/

Hi, OP -

I am a former STEM RG admissions tutor in a very high tariff School. You have good advice on the primary choice above and I am sure you will get more.

However thus far only @AuntyBulgaria and @PerpetualOptimist have addressed the role of the Insurance choice. One never knows how the exam season will go for any given candidate; I have seen everything. The Insurance choice should allow for slippage of two grades. I agree with @PerpetualOptimist that the only Insurance choice here, in the spirit of the word, is York.

Of course if DS is willing to risk Clearing or take a gap year, this consideration does not apply.

Best wishes to DS

Thanks - that’s a good way to look at it.

He is predicted 3 A stars.

Durham offer is A star AA
York offer is 3 As
Bristol offer is ABB (contextual)

He also has a 4th offer but he’s ruled that one out.

So a slippage of 2 grades from his predicted would still see him achieve Durham and a slippage of 3 would still allow York. His recent mocks and NEA results suggest he’s still on track for 3 A stars.

So possible combinations are -

Durham / York
Durham / Bristol
York / Bristol

He did go to open days / OHDs and liked them all but didn’t love any of them, he is still unsure and tbh has his attention on his revision now so is not really thinking about it. (And to the PP who said “it’s his decision” - yes am aware of that - I’m trying to help him by gathering info that might be useful / interesting beyond what’s on Uni websites).

They are all good options. But perhaps a year out would be best given his uncertainty - he has no plan though and all his mates are going to Uni this year so it would be a bit of a leap into the unknown.

I think a year out at 18/19 is often unproductive, it's very young to go travelling, the only sort of employment available is usually low pay and low satisfaction, and with friends away at uni, he could feel disconnected from them.

They're all excellent universities, so as others have advised, I think he should look at the course choices available and see what appeals to him - although it could change, I studied history a long time ago and became fascinated with the Middle Ages, which hadn't been much of an interest before college.

I think history is a solid degree still, I loved my studies, most of my classmates were also very engaged.

My niece went to Bristol and found it quite West London, I don't know if this would be a pro or con for your son. Would York perhaps have more of a mix?

Ease of travel home is an issue too - not just for visiting family, but for keeping up with friends from school.

How is your dc’s mental health? Are they very robust, easy going, sociable, makes friends easily, or is there potential for them to struggle a bit? Are they ND at all? I only ask as distance may be quite important if there is a possibility they may struggle. Being 8 hours away is quite a difficulty, if they need a bit of informal support at times, whereas if it’s only a hour or two journey, then possible for parents / family to pop over for lunch, or for the day, which may just be the thing that keeps them going through difficult periods.

If he / you have done all due diligence, looking at modules / research specialisms / course work & group work / ranking / student feedback on how academics support students, and % of students in employment after 15 months plus other things… then there are just a few other things to consider before he flips a coin!

• does dc know anyone else that is going to any of these places? (That can sometimes help with the early transition)
• cost of accommodation - this can be a major consideration - just checked on dc1’s hall of residence that he was in in 2023 - it has gone up to £12k per year from £9k, just three years ago.
• availability of accommodation - I heard a couple of years ago about students at Bristol being allocated halls in Wales, and having to have a lengthy bus journey each day - is this true, or is it still happening?
• Some unis are more flexible than others (how do the three compare, if grades slip a bit?). I know it sounds unlikely, but there is a possibility that not all goes according to plan and he may end up with AstarAstarB for instance - would Durham and York be flexible enough to accept this? If not, then he is in clearing. (My dc1 was predicted AstarAA, but ended up with AAA (which was what he needed) BUT was only just inside the ‘A’ threshold on all three - so could extremely easily have got a B… and he had been working extremely hard in the run-up to exams…).

If all is truly equal after extensive due diligence - then tell him you will flip a coin for the Firm (between Durham and York), and tell him he has to commit to whatever the answer is.

Then flip a coin.

Then immediately ask him how he feels about it - as that immediate gut reaction (of joy or disappointment) can actually tease out their true feelings (and it probably feels like such a big decision that he cannot bring himself to make the decision)..

If his immediate reaction is joy - then go for it.

If it is disappointment - then he should go for the other one!

Wow, this is fabulous! But it doesn’t help much with the choice, does it?

FYI about 80% of PGs are inaccurate with the large majority over-predictions. They are supposed to predict what the candidate could achieve on a good day, but that statistic shows that things have gotten out of hand.

Nevertheless absent wild optimism your DS does sound a good bet for his offers.

I hope he makes them all, and with that I’ll leave this happy dilemma to those more familiar with the issues.

PS IME a gap year is often a great thing.

It needs to be planned so that the YP will get something useful out of it. One can learn quite a lot about life from a few months in an NMW job followed by a few months travelling. Most of the British YP in my family have taken this pathway, enjoyed it thoroughly and thrived at university and beyond.

Amongst my own personal tutees and to the extent that I learn details of other UGs, I often find that those who have had gap years (and particularly some experience of work or volunteering) find it easier to motivate themselves, manage their time, deal with life admin, etc.

I actually think most would benefit from a gap year.

Durham is the most prestigious on paper which may help when it comes to applying for jobs/postgrad after graduating.

If he really has no preference with his predicted grades he should choose the top uni out of the three, which is Durham.

I’d go for Durham with York as the insurance

My daughter is on a gap year, she a young one for the year.

she has worked more hours in her part time job - she has gained confidence as she is mixing with a broader pool of employees then the teen based weekenders. Also got some experience of the life of work - some weeks were near full time
hours.

she’s just had a month in SE Asia. All planned and booked by herself and friend no input from me - she is very happy with herself for doing this and that nothing went wrong.

A (very) large number of her friends are in gap years or commutable unis - she has had a great social life.

in her case I only see positives.

Thanks - these are all really good points.

His mental health is fine (tho a bit tired and grumpy with all the revision at the moment!). He is a bit shy / self contained so am worried about the making friends bit. Once he builds a friendship he’s fine it’s just getting to that stage that he may find a bit more challenging than some. I think he could easily be intimidated by some of the confident / dominant kids that he will come across. But I guess that is life!

He doesn’t know anyone going to any of these Unis unfortunately.

I’m not overly concerned about accommodation costs. I’ve saved and will help him. But I think a collegiate / campus set up could be better for him than the dispersed set up at Bristol.

Not sure about attitudes to grade slippage - that’s a good point and something we can research.

I think the tip about a coin toss is actually not a bad one for drawing out his gut feeling. Might give it a go!!