Edinburgh / Bath Chem Eng without FM A Level

[NamechangeRugby]

Has anyone any experience of going straight into 2nd year for Edinburgh Chem Eng, with Maths A-Level, but not having studied FM A Level?

I'm aware other Uni's run their first year Engineering to allow catch up on FM (one DC recently did so at Bristol), but is Edinburgh 2nd year different as they already offer a year before to get everyone up to speed?

Anyone any experience of how Bath cater to those trying to catch up on FM?

TIA

I am not sure about chemistry but I know Edinburgh offers 2nd year entry to other science courses if the applicant has achieved A in one of the maths. This is because the 2 year A Level program covers more than the 1 year Scottish Highers so if they have an A in Maths that shows they have acquired knowledge they would be covering in the first year of a Scottish 4 year BSc.

Many universities in England do not require further maths as the content is covered in the first year of the degree anyway, therefore there’s no need to “get anyone up to speed”.

If your child is eligible for second year entry at Edinburgh, I strongly suggest that they take it.Mine decided to start from year 1 anyway and found it so easy he stopped studying properly until it was too late.

Hmm… I didn’t meant to put that in bold letters…

Apologies, if they achieved A* in maths. No advanced entry offer just for an A.

Thanks very much, that is helpful. We do keep hearing that 1st year a bit of a waste - not socially, but given an MEng is already 4 years, plus a year in Industry, it isn't very time or cost effective to add yet another.

Then again, we do know of someone who tried straight into 2nd year and felt they had to drop back, only to find 1st year too easy.

It seems to be a bit of a mish-mash with the Scottish system. Very irritating that all kids across UK could not be educated to the same standard before Uni, my own included re FM.

DDs BF did 2nd year entry in a different MEng discipline at Edinburgh without FM (he had maths, physics and design technology). His maths is very good just preferred the design tech A level. He say that it’s definitely doable without FM as long as your willing to put the hours in on the maths.

The Scottish university system is not a follow on from the English school system and there are often issues with first year at Scottish university being a bit of a walk in the park for students with A-levels or IB. The real question is why you would choose a Scottish university in those circumstances. I think it's absolutely fine to see first year of Scottish university as a bit of gap year providing you can afford to support your child through this.

I did Chem Eng at Edinburgh. It is now ancient history, but I don't think the couple of people who went straight to 2nd year had a great time. They miss out both socially and in the grounding in all engineering disciplines. One from our year did a gap year for third year, and rejoined us for 4th year. The one who joined us in 2nd year never really gelled with us socially, and this is important as there is so much collaborative work later on.

The A-level gives you maybe a half-term lead in first year. An 'easy' first year gives you a great opportunity to experience everything Edinburgh has to offer.

Thanks very much. Are you glad you studied Chem Eng? Has it allowed you an interesting career? Would you do it again? (I will not be showing this thread to DD, but I'm curious)

It's a brilliant degree - it opens doors in so many areas. Not easy, though.

@NamechangeRugby I’m assuming it has to be Scotland? This degree with a placement is a huge commitment there but you aren’t paying fees I assume. It’s a balance between time, which is in effect 2 years extra, and whether it’s worth it. I think most without work experience will get jobs but I would check those stats. It depends on how you see a first year and a year out and whether either are needed vs 4 years MEng and go into work - that’s the cheapest route!

No, we do not live in Scotland so will pay UK fees. Similarly, we do not live in Bath. Cost-wise it would make more sense to have tried for a Degree Apprenticeship or gone to local Uni, but if we take the view that living away is an education in and of itself, then here we are... have decided to look at it as an investment (who knows with AI though) and that there are fall back options if it doesn't work out.

There seems to be a lot of advice that work experience very useful to secure post grad employment. They are at least paid a salary that placement year, but I hear what you are saying - definitely longer. Quite a few of her peers in either Uni are likely to be more flush (either as not paying fees or simply more generous parental top ups) whereas they will have a definite budget, are not eligible for any additional assistance and unlikely to have the capacity to continue part time work term time.

@MeetMeOnTheCorner meant to tag you. Thanks

@NamechangeRugby The work experience can turn dc off something completely of course! They also include non engineering work so ask what % stay in engineering.

I really would think twice about Scotland. I cannot see any advantage as you don’t live there so it’s very expensive to do the longer course. Dc will probably have to find the placement so there are failures on this front. Nowhere will guarantee a placement. They are probably not all great either. He definitely needs the MEng and I agree university is a full education away from home and obviously local universities are often not suitable. I’ve no idea what apprenticeships are available but rarely is a MEng degree available at a top university.

@MeetMeOnTheCorner thanks. We never actually thought to check % of graduates who go onto be engineers for Bath or Edinburgh. I think DC thought it would be quite high as imagine your personal statement has to demonstrate a fairly keen interest.

Our eldest is at Bristol and managed to secure an engineering placement. Very enthusiastic atm,but will see how it goes. Appreciate a relatively high % of Bristol engineering go into Finance but atm they are loving Engineering - type of kid who always loved that type of thing. If next year puts them off, well at least they'll know before they commit to the MEng year. Or maybe they need to commit as soon as they get their second year grades, if good enough. I don't know.

But I've just re-read your post 'rarely is an MEng available at a top Uni' 😳. Is that true?? We were all under the impression that if you were on for at least a IIi that it would be reasonably straightforward to switch. Is that not the case? To be honest, I was wondering why anyone would bother applying for an MEng with higher grade tariff, as they'd still have to score well enough throughout 1st & 2nd year. So are you saying that even if they get a 1st or IIi, they are unlikely to be able to convert BEng to an MEng?

All these decisions so young and really we as parents are totally clueless about Engineering, so any and all advice gratefully received.

(Of course, although I'm interested, I cannot guarantee my offspring will pay a blind bit of attention 🙄😂! Good kids, but now adults and they own their own path iykwim.)

'm very much hoping BEng application not a foolish oversight. They both got or are predicted the A Levels that would have been necessary for the MEng, but accept they may not necessarily have received offers if numbers more limited than we realised. Literally was not aware of potential funding issue nor difficulty in switching from BEng to MEng if you got the grades. Thought that if missed the grades then probably wouldn't want to fo MEng anyway).

rarely is an MEng available at a top Uni

No, that’s rubbish. The MEng is an integrated masters degree which enables students to get a masters level qualification without having to do a stand-alone Masters degree. Makes sense for most students as it makes the fees / funding more straightforward. Cambridge, Oxford, Warwick and Imperial all do MEng degrees.

My DS did MEng in chem eng at Edinburgh. He had maths and maths of mechanics at AH (FM doesn’t exist in Scotland) and found the first year straightforward and could have gone in to second year easily.

I think with Edinburgh you need to consider whether you want to skip the first year but then you’re going into a set up where people have established friend groups, or go into first year at Bath and maybe have a better freshers / social experience.

Bath has a great rep for engineering, but you might find that things move fast and without FM it’s easy to get lost. (DS and I were talking about it today - how if you don’t grasp a maths concept straightaway things move on fast and then you’re lost). Ask if both courses post the lectures online (Edinburgh did when DS was there a few years ago - so you can pause / rewind and make sure you understand it).

@NamechangeRugby Oh my goodness ! That was a typo I didn’t notice. Of course MEng is available. I meant to say that often apprenticeships don’t put employees on MEng courses and don’t always use the best universities, so degrees are not always the quality you would find in a top engineering department. You will find many are BEng but you would need to do the research to see if the university was suitable. Apologies for misunderstanding.

@MeetMeOnTheCorner no worries, thank you. In fact, you have (inadvertently or otherwise) got me to prompt both DC to check funding & grade conditions around their degrees (one currently 2nd year, other offer stage) - it might be really valuable to them to know & discuss now rather than when belatedly trying to secure MEng extra year!

Thanks re info on Apprenticeships - you never know if one decides to take a gap year, but I am sure they are like hens teeth eg the ones with release to Warwick (how lovely would that be, all paid for!).

Thanks & all best

The social aspect was one of the reasons why I thought it was better for DS to start in Year 1 but… these are other times, not only in Scotland but all around: with most students used to carry out most of their studies online after the lockdown… DS reported that a huge amount of people didn’t know anyone studying the same degree. He was lucky that two of his flatmates did the same course, one of them went straight into Year 2 but as he still had accommodation for the first year, he was as much as part of the social group as anybody in the flat doing a different degree.

@NamechangeRugby Usually continuing to MEng after starting on BEng is subject to performance. With apprenticeships, dc have to know that the job is right for them. The BEng will
probably be the limit and absolutely check which uni. Best wishes in the research.

Thanks, that is interesting. And you are right, although it is a bit gutting to go to Uni and to rent in an expensive place to sit in a bedroom online and only really get to know your flat mates ... I suppose at least they have labs for a certain amount of it & societies/sports & hopefully an enjoyable social life (if they can afford the time and money).Things feel as if they are really changing so fast though. And the terms are so short. They're barely away, but they're back again.

I agree with you, it is a waste spending so much time studying from their bedrooms when there are so many things they would discover if they spent more time hanging around their academic department more.

In the case of DS, he still had a pretty active social life (far too much I would say..) and he was in several student societies but… they didn’t socialise just out of the classroom as in previous years, which is a pity as they may have missed out on those interesting conversations or even debates about the academic subject.

My DD went through the whole of uni never sharing with anyone doing her degree. However engineers should be doing labs and collaborating. Therefore check course content. Being a good engineer snd sitting in your room all day and night is not possible.