Is it worth switching from independent to state for A level if applying for a highly competitive subject?

[rougheredges]

DS is in yr 10 in an independent school. He’s really happy there- we’re pleased with the academics and he’s got a lovely group of friends. He’s currently predicted grade 8/9 in 9 of his GCSEs (and a 7 in DT which he’s doing because he loves if!) He’s managing this pretty effortlessly.

Currently he’s thinking he’d like to study Economics at one of the tougher universities to get an offer from. He knows he’ll need lots of extra/ super curriculars as well, but his friend’s dad told him today that he might find it harder applying from an independent school. Apparently there’s less wiggle room and the bar is higher.

I’ve looked online and there’s a lot of conflicting information. Most of what’s out there seems to refer to contextual offers which isn’t relevant. I’ve read that it does matter/ it doesn’t matter/ they take where you did GCSEs into account so it’s too late/ they prioritise state schools/ it’s all about grades and PS.

I fear the answer may lie somewhere in the middle of all that but is there anyone who could give more guidance? His current school are keen to keep him (he’s currently an academic scholar with a princely 5% bursary!) so I’m not convinced they’d give unbiased advice.

(Local state school is great. He’d have gone there but it’s C of E and we didn’t qualify being disorganised atheists who figured it out too late. They remove the church attendance requirement at A level.)

Does anyone have any info?

Thanks titchy - basically from that report there is no statistical evidence that use of contextualisation has any negative effect on markers of student success?

You made the assertion - it’s on you to provide evidence.

This is a bit like being asked to prove lizard people don’t exist, but here you go for the LSE
https://www.lse.ac.uk/study-at-lse/Undergraduate/Prospective-Students/How-to-Apply/entry-requirements?
Im sure you’ll be shocked to find that there aren’t unlimited places.

‘What’ was in answer to your assertion there is no link between entry requirements and degree outcomes. I’ll repeat it again actually, what?

Yes they even suggest lowering AAB down to BBC for top universities, how could this possibly lower standards ?

How can anyone with any common sense think this will be a good thing? Its just another example of the slow death of UK institution at the alter of equality of outcome.

I think you’d be much better leaving him at his existing school. There seems to be a lot of chat in the media about moving from Independent to State schools for A’Levels but I wouldn’t unless it was due to finances or unhappiness in the existing school. I see plenty of University offers in competitive subjects at my son’s Independent school. I also have older children who moved at 16 from one ‘outstanding’ Comprehensive to another & both times I felt that they were not given the same academic regard as existing students. I’ve experienced similar when relatives have moved from an Independent to State Grammar for A’Levels.

The question that you could ask is ‘what degree of grade adjustment is necessary to achieve the outcome wanted - ie to achieve the aim of admitting a cohort of students of the required level of underlying ability?’

If research finds that the contextualisation made so far has no negative impact on measures of student success but that private school / privileged students are still statistically underperforming related to the cohort, then that would imply that greater adjustment is needed to match the underlying ability of the students admitted from each educational background. In other words, the approach might be right, but not yet be going far enough.

Again, you are treating A level results as a true, irrefutable measure of a student’s ability, regardless of context.

A moment’s reflection should be enough to realise this is not correct.

And yet the evidence does not show such a decline…

Personally I tend to believe evidence, rather than disgruntled randomers on the internet.

Has the UK’s performance in international league tables declined, to prove your assertion that UK HE is suffering a slow death? I’ll save you looking that up - the answer is no.

Anyway this is obviously pointless, and totally irrelevant to OP (my suggestion would be to keep him where he is fwiw - if that’s what he’d prefer. Good luck to him).

LOL. There will never be an end to the push for lowering entry standards and identity politic based entry concessions, it’s the nature of the beast that it will never go far enough. When nobody wants to go to Oxford because the degree has lost its prestige, international rankings and research investment when basically you only need DDE and 3 family members in prison…. maybe then. It will be slow but it will happen an inch at a time

My offer from Oxbridge was 2 Es, many many moons ago.

Has the UK’s performance in international league tables declined, to prove your assertion that UK HE is suffering a slow death? I’ll save you looking that up - the answer is no.

Erm yes.

https://afcomm.org.uk/2025/04/01/the-uk-ranks-sixty-fourth-in-global-academic-freedom-ranking-marking-steady-decline/

It wasn’t that long ago you got into Oxford with EE if your face fitted and you passed some ‘internal’ exams. So this idea of losing prestige and international rankings due to widening participation efforts is a little overblown IMHO.

Oh that’s funny Obviously I was referring to measures of quality. I thought that didn’t need saying, clearly it did.

What is your preferred metric ?

When was that ?

1980s in my case.

I think that in the interests of those who may not know, you should discuss the context.

https://www.qs.com/rankings-performance

Jesus, what was your postcode? Somewhere in Beirut?

70’s -80’s. From Chat GPT

• There were people admitted with less-than-stellar grades
• But they were usually:
• Exceptionally strong thinkers, or
• Late developers, or
• Outstanding in interviews/exams

The myth of “you could stroll in with 2 Es” oversimplifies it—but it does reflect a time when human judgement carried far more weight than metrics.

The context has been mentioned by another poster - separate internal exams were set by the university and were combined with interview performance.

It was not my only 2E offer - others were from ‘highly selective’ universities also.

It’s similar now for eg music performance degrees - even the most selective conservatoires only need 2Es (for funding purposes) once the audition is passed.

All academics (I am Russell Group STEM subject) know that QS can be gamed.

When I was doing UCAS, all Oxbridge offers were 2 Es if you passed the separate university entrance tests / interviews.

I asked DH about this (post 1992 institution) and he reminded me of the year there were more students enrolled on the course he teaches than seats in the largest lecture theatre...

There are definitely more signs of over supply in HE than excess demand, a few elite institutions notwithstanding.

I think what's been missing from this discussion is a consideration that UCAS is a bidding system.

The students make their choices.

The universities make offers, generally over booking in the knowledge that some won't firm them, some will but won't make the offer, some won't make the offer but will get a place anyway, some will accept the place then defer or not show up for whatever reason.

I'm not sure it's possible to definitely say "student X missed out to student Y".

That’s why the standard offer is AAA for non stem subjects. If they want you, they want you and they don’t make it too difficult to get the grades. Quite often they will still let you in if you miss a grade too. All the ones they offer places too they want. The admission process is arduous for all!

To be expected.