UCL or Imperial

[TheProudDad]

My daughter got offers from Imperial and UCL to study Biology.
Interested to know if anyone had any experience with these two Unis and can share which would be the best choice.

my preference is Imperial but she seem to prefer UCL. She seem to think Imperial is extremely intense and difficult while UCL is meant to be more chilled. She’s worried the intensity might be too much to keep up with for 3 years. She’s coming from a highly academic school and is currently doing iB which is a lot of work but she have been coping very well, even if that mean she studies 7 days a week.

I am hoping this thread can help with some actual facts to help her make a decision. I know us parents say its the child’s decision but they are still very young and need guidance IMO

Thanks in advance for your help

It’s all about getting the high paid job at the end. Cruising is not good enough for some students as they are ultra competitive. Others are mere mortals and do just fine.

When assessed assignments are due on both the last day of term and the first day of the next, and that is followed up with exams, there's really no option but to maintain incredibly high levels of engagement right through Christmas and Easter holidays. University curricula and assessment are designed to have students work through the holidays without a break. It was not always like that - semesterisation has changed the rhythms.

Where requires work handed in on first day of term that was not part of the previous terms study? Vacation work when halls might have to be vacated is not normal - it’s patently unfair if dc are not at the university. Reading and prep work - yes, do that in the vacation period.

Im an honorary lecturer at UCL. Prior to teaching there I used to think UCL was highly regarded (certainly in my field). However I now see a different perspective, its just a corrupt money making business. I had a terrible dissertation submitted to me for marking a few years ago, it was by no means any where near a pass (the student in question only wrote less than half of it and it was full of to do lists).
I failed her, sent it back to UCL and they amended it to a pass mark because they didn’t want their ranking affected. Also, I question the English entrance exams for international students, most of them can barely wtite a simple sentence in English and use google translate all the time, therefore I have no idea how these students come out with degrees, however money talks doesn’t it. I’d go with Imperial.

TBF English standards are an issue everywhere. The threshold is too low, in that one can cram, pass and regress without the learning sticking.

I don’t blame our Overseas applicants in the least: they are playing by the rules of the game, and they do not understand until too late that those rules do them no favours. The solution would be to demand a higher standard of English or to insist on pre-sessional English immersion, but no university can afford to risk making the first move in this direction.

It is a national disgrace, and we (not necessarily you @Bumblebeehee ) blame the students when we should be blaming the universities.

It's perfectly standard practice to have assessed essay deadlines either side of the Christmas and Easter breaks (for modules from the previous semester) followed by exams.

Your anecdote doesn't ring true, and is pretty offensive to the many students who work very hard at UCL for excellent degrees.

You presumably mean they double marked it, or moderated it? If they just amended it then I'd hope you would use the whistle blowing policy to report it.

How did it compare to the work of the other students in the group?

@Ceramiq You said the first day. That’s not normal.

In fairness a dissertation could scrape a pass of 40% and it would still mean they’ve lost 60% of marks. Hopefully the 2nd marker applied the rubric correctly. And failed assignment should be second marked, that’s good practice. Plus a selection of assignments should be seen by the external examiner who I’d like to think would pick up on any dodgy practices.

The issue about international students is something I’ve seen about quite a few high ranking RG universities. I have no idea if it’s true or not. But I read something about a specific course at Manchester earlier today with the same issue, that it’s a cash cow allowing international students on at the expense of home students as more money. No idea how true it is. Dd is on the course in question and says it’s 80% international students. I do feel sorry for universities on this aspect as they have to make the books balance and can’t currently with home students.

Yes it is: standard practice. Universities also don't communicate "holiday dates" - there are semesters, with weeks where there are lectures/seminars, there are reading weeks, there are revision weeks, there are assessment weeks and there are weeks when the administration is closed. But the concept of "holidays" at Christmas and Easter (ie students are not expected to study) is less and less of a thing. I think this is great: students have to learn to manage their time and energy over an academic year from mid-September to mid-May with clear deadlines for assessment and examinations. Then they have a long summer break (most often they don't even know what modules they will be doing the following year so there is no possible study prep) to do internships, summer schools etc.

Actually returning students in the Schools, at my uni and others, where I know the procedures sign up for course modules in late Spring. There are adjustments when they return in the Autumn but I estimate 80% or more of the work is done. Usually any changes are because of student preference, not necessity.

Otherwise staff would be overwhelmed.

At LSE, for example, students go online at the end of the summer to choose modules. At the Courtauld they express preferences in June but don't get confirmation until September.

The semesterisation of student timetables and annualisation of study rhythms is probably more acceptable at universities with a high proportion of international students (Imperial, LSE...). The Oxbridge boarding school university model with long Christmas and Easter holidays where students have to vacate their rooms is, for many British people, a cultural template of how universities "should" operate but is alien to many international students. It's also highly impractical for students who come from a long way away. In London plenty of international students do not go home during the academic year.

These are small institutions. But that also means a very high proportion of student choices can be accommodated, and students know this.

We and most highly ranked RG STEM programmes also have a high proportion of international students. Frankly, their tuition is the only thing keeping us afloat.

This is the best answer and the only one you need!

Can I infer from that statement that your institution cannot therefore be particularly fussy about which international students it recruits? Which is not the case for LSE or Imperial.

LSE and Imperial are flush with cash whereas Nottingham for example is struggling a lot

No.

Imperial is flush largely because it has 60% overseas students, of equal academic calibre to home students.

They have a decent endowment but nobody, repeat nobody, is using their endowment for teaching expenses.

Edinburgh has a bigger one and is in the midst of s huge cost cutting effort.

Then it surely doesn't matter at all that international students are what is keeping your subject afloat? If university courses can recruit equally high calibre students at both home and international fees, that is surely an excellent way forward?

The British Public don’t necessarily see it that way, and politicians are well aware of this.

The British Public are contributing substantially to university funding through their taxes, although not specifically to teaching.

With experience of both, I would go for UCL. You benefit from being part of the University of London and the campus is obviously closer to other unis like SOAS and Kings from being in Bloomsbury. That makes it quite fun.

I remember a saying for dating at imperial that the odds are good, but the goods are odd. I’m sure you can figure out what that means!

sport also better at UCL.

It is in the interest of the British Public to have universities across the country that are internationally competitive. Perhaps as you say the Little Britain mindset prevails (the one that voted for Brexit) but that is not the way to economic prosperity.

Ucl gone downhill

I think people are becoming aware of this.

Polls are consistently showing decisive majorities in favour of rejoining the EU. The main parties seem to be running too scared of Reform to do anything about it.

I think that’s a mistake.