Uni open days despite wanting apprenticeship degree?

[Citygirlrurallife]

DS is in Year 12 and quite keen on applying for Apprenticeship Degrees in Cyber Security. One or two go through UCAS but most don’t, and I think he wants to look at Space Science Apprenticeships too.

i was thinking it might be worth touring and thinking of uni as well as apprenticeships are so competitive but he gets overwhelmed at the choice. He would love to do Astrophysics OR Computer Science and recently has started thinking about Maths more just because he loves it so much. In theory all these degrees can probably lead to similar jobs because of the crossover but does anyone have advice or where he can start his research as he’s just finding it all a bit much at the moment. College haven’t been super helpful so far, I think he needs some proper higher education/careers guidance. Can you get a professional for something like that?!

I’m at a loss how to help because I went to uni in the early 2000’s when it was just get into the best russel group one that will take you, and I did drama and English whereas his A Levels are Physics, CS, Maths and Further Maths so I’m not even sure what kind of questions to ask him to help him narrow it down. FWIW he’s likely to get A’s, maybe an A* in physics and/or CS if he applies himself

Yes absolutely have Uni as a back up. Regarding apprenticeships he needs to get as much work experience as he can. Most of the major tech firms offer this and set up alerts on their websites. My DS is doing an apprenticeship so feel free to DM if I can help anymore.

We're in a similar position. Going to our first open day this weekend.
University is the back up plan as wanting engineering hence will need the qualification.

So we're just going to look at two for now (to use as a comparison). We plan to look at the engineering department and apprenticeship stand.
It will also help with writing applications if dc has a bit of background knowledge.
We also thought we might be able to look at which companies the University works with and therefore which ones to look out for when applying for apprenticeships. Dc is swaying between a few courses/types of engineering so hopefully will get some information to help make an informed choice (as I have no idea about engineering).
Dc is reluctant but understands the need to cover all bases (and that apprenticeships are difficult to come by).

Dyson do fantastic engineering apprenticeships 👍

Yes definitely look at unis as back up. It’s more competitive than an Oxbridge offer to get an apprenticeship so they need a plan B.
Go to all the talks and sample lectures for the different subjects. Talk to staff and students. Look at course modules carefully.

Thankyou I will, I know he hasn’t really done much research into what it takes to actually get an apprenticeship degree!

Look carefully at the ones which you apply to through UCAS - you’ll need to find your own employer. Any that offer a BEng (I suspect the space science ones) won’t lead to chattered engineer status which will mean he’ll still need to gain further qualifications.

Definitely go to open days. Degree apprenticeships are far harder to gain and you’ll need plans B and C and D.

Depending on where you live etc, Southampton Uni have just opened up applications for their Year 12 Computer Science 5 day residential summer school. DS did it a couple of years ago, and it was really good at showing what a Computer Science degree / being at Uni would be like, including a mini careers fair thing. He might want to consider something like that as well as doing Open Days etc. Parents were invited on the last day for lunch & Q&A etc

Oh wow Thankyou - we’re only 50mins from Southampton so that would be super easy

I think a lot of schools don't start university/apprenticeship/careers advice until Year 13, which IMO is a bit late - he really needs to be thinking about his applications, particularly for apprenticeships before then. I'd agree to start looking at university Open Days - there will be some coming up in the summer. If he really has no idea, can you just start with your most local university, to give him an idea (even if that wouldn't be one he would apply to)?

If you are on Facebook I recommend the group WIWIKAU ("What I wish I knew about university" - but it also covers apprenticeships) as it gives lot of advice to parents supporting their DC through the various application processes.

@Dontlookup1 The world and his wife want Dyson. That’s just one employer designing household machines. It’s not civil or structural engineering for example.

To help with decision making, you snd DS need to look closely at the various Engimeering institutions and understand what they do. Is he interested in buildings, large infrastructure projects, automotive, aerospace, product design, mechanical engineering, electronics etc etc? What makes him tick? So many options. The Engineering council takes you through how to become a qualified engineer. The Institutions give you detail.

You need to be aware that, in essence, there are two levels of degree. BEng and MEng. MEng leads to Chartered Engineer status without the need for a masters. BEng leads to Incorporated Engineer. A masters is needed for CEng.

Most apprenticeships are BEng and some won’t provide the necessary training to become incorporated or chartered. No one is a professional engineers unless they have the professional qualification. So check what training is going to be available from the employer or it can be dead end work.

The other benefit of uni degree is time to choose career trajectory. Degrees are broad but there’s options within them. Direction of travel can change. A dc with an employer can get pigeon holed very quickly and progression can be limited.

Lots of people seem to think the degree is the qualification, but it’s not. A bit like a doctor, more is needed. The best employers take dc through to chartered status and then you are employable the world over.

Yes, you get paid as an apprentice but might have to sacrifice breadth of training and MEng and then CEng. So I strongly advise dc to be fully informed before making a choice at 18 that he then regrets - either way! Apprenticeships might be jam today but leave the jam tomorrow to Imperial grads.

DS is most interested in the Civil Service Cyber Security Appenticeships at the moment and I think (but don’t quote me) they go through UCAS

I have to disagree although my ds is in a blue chip tech company. The experience he gets in a variety of fields is second to none, with a paid for degree plus a guaranteed job unless he messes up plus at 20 is on his way to buying his own house and is driving a very flash car. My DH who is Imperial and Cambridge graduate strongly encouraged him down this pathway.

@User5667887765544331 Well you probably have not seen some of the other poor options then! Third class universities and BEng is the norm. So when is he getting Chartered?

It will work for some, and obviously your DH was in a position to advise, as my DH would be, but, many accept poor degrees and very average apprenticeships and don’t get much beyond the degree. Being taken on by an average company offering limited progression and very limited experience is not always that great. A degree from a third rate uni isn’t Imperial or Cambridge is it?

One hopes at 19 hrs capable of driving a flash car! Not sure I’d be boasting about that. Presumably living at home and not paying rent, so lucky he has spare money. What is a flash car costing to insure at 19?

We are in the same boat OP. Ds is in year 12 and is hoping to get a degree apprenticeship in business management/project management. But I ve stressed he has to do UCAS application as well as degree apprenticeships are so bloody hard to get! We are booking into three Uni open days over the summer, they are his top 3 favourites so far. We’ve spent hours/days/weeks trawling websites 😩 it’s all complicated, time consuming, and exhausting!

@MissyB1It’s a great shame there’s no central gateway for apprenticeships. Maybe someone will realise there should be. It’s very disjointed and certainly not identical in quality.

My DS isn’t at an average company, he is in a blue chip tech company. Yes he lives at home and spends his money on a beautiful car and is well on the way to saving for a house deposit. More to the point it is what he wanted to do and the opportunities are amazing.

@User5667887765544331 But you must appreciate others don’t get apprenticeships with such companies. Senior roles usually become very competitive too. Are you besotted with cars?

@Citygirlrurallife is the university element of all the degree apprenticeships purely distance learning? Would your DS at least consider looking in person at the universities involved in the various schemes, whatever the mode of study for the apprenticeship?

You do have to be very proactive and put yourself out there. All companies advertise on their websites and you can create alerts for when applications open and be prepared to treat every application individually. I also cannot emphasize enough for grabbing as much work experience as you can get in the summer of Year 12. Most of it is online. I am assuming you are looking at Civil Service for Cyber Security. The Police also do good apprenticeships and a good foot in the door for a future in Cyber Security.

I agree to uni as an alternative option. My ds is in year1 of an apprenticeship degree. It was very competitive and not without bumps in the road to get there. Also dont under estimate the apprenticeship work load.

I thought the GCHQ did apprenticeship but can’t seem to find it on their website. However, they do offer a nursery and summer placement scheme for students. Maybe worth looking into.

https://www.gchq-careers.co.uk/our-careers/early-careers/student-bursary.html

My DD’s friend is doing project management degree apprenticeship at BAE she secured during her gap her.
The ones securing apprenticeships that I know had fantastic grades, work experience, volunteering eg scouts or guides young leader but also solid pt work history so they could show they could successfully juggle work and study.
Some who had no luck yr13 kept applying and were successful year after. They had deferred uni places as a back up.

@Citygirlrurallife If he chose a maths degree, he has a myriad of careers open to him. Cyber security is what it is and it’s a narrow career choice at 18, so he needs to be certain it’s what he wants. A maths degree is a better degree than cyber security on line or day release. If he’s good at maths, would he look at one of the COWI unis? Would this open up better paying roles and he can take modules to aid decision making while at uni.

Yikes. My DS is also yr12 and has mentioned degree apprenticeships and uni.
Is he meant to be booking open days now?
I kind of leave things up to him and presume 6th form are keeping them informed, but maybe I need to be more proactive.

Personally, if thinking degree apprenticeship I would look into what is required and consider applying to uni whilst at school then defer for a year. Take a year out (working) and apply during that year. It is onerous, its much more than applying to uni and often includes, assessments, multiple interviews and group assessment days.
You can then chose which option you want if you manage to secure both.