Studying in the USA as a non citizen

[everymeeveryyou]

DS3 is in Y12 and after asking him to narrow down Unis for visits he has presented me with an option of studying in America instead. 2 of his siblings have been through/are going through the English Uni system and I am looking for advice on what to consider and expect if we support his request.
He is looking at Marine Biology in Florida or California.
Currently DD is in London so we are already experiencing the cost of that, but am aware that US universities are much more expensive.
Any advice, signposting or information would be gratefully received.

@everymeeveryyou It’s basically either very very deep pockets or DC need to be super bright. A shoe in at Oxford bright! So if you are both, have a go. Undergrad fee reduction is difficult to get. Dd got a place at an American uni but we decided the benefit just wasn’t with the money over world class university here.

DS is at an Ivy League college. He’s an athlete (GB).

There are no scholarships for athletes at Ivy League colleges but we’ve had a very generous Financial Aid package that has meant it’s cost him / us the same as studying at a UK university. But that money has had to be found by us as there is no access to UK Student Finance.

I would seriously look at the stability of doing this during the current administration. Immigration is obviously a huge push point over there and universities and student visas have been targeted before, as a PP points out. As well as general security concerns of living over there in such unstable times, I'd be concerned about interruptions to his course and funding to it if the sitting president decides to strangle federal funding streams as he has in recent memory.

I have one DC at university in the USA (3rd year) and another coming up to it but we live there. It is expensive to study at public universities as an international student (though to be fair that’s true in other Anglophone countries). California is tricky as the best universities other than Stanford are public and therefore expensive for you. At private universities it is hugely variable in terms of how much money they give.

do be aware that quoted prices are typically “all in” including living expenses and the living situation can be very different (catered halls as standard for first year at minimum).

Marine biology isn’t really my field I’m afraid. I will say that the plus point of the US system, really the main reason someone would prefer it over England, is the flexibility and breadth. That has to be something a student wants. It’s particularly good for humanities/social science students or those with varied interests. If he’s really dedicated to marine biology an English single subject degree might be more suitable.

.last time she crossed the land border from Canada into the US, and despite having a valid ESTA, and being with her whole team and coach, clearly there to play a match, she was hauled out of their van and questioned closely. She was also asked to pay $60, which is not required

Just as an aside it certainly used to be the case that for UK passport holders an ESTA wasn't valid for land entry into the US from Canada.

I used to travel between Vancouver and Seattle regularly as part of a group and if anyone in the party only had an ESTA they had to be processed by Border at ? Blaine and pay for the issue of a Visa on the spot...

I'd kind of assumed times had moved on but maybe not.

I researched this thoroughly and was told by US immigration that an ESTA sufficed.
She has a paper copy of the ESTA too. Maybe i need to relook at it. It is very hard to find reliable info as she is a British citizen, residing in Canada on a Study Permit, travelling to the US.
It is v nerve wracking tbh.

OK, fair enough, in which case what you describe doesn't sound good.

I'm going back a long long way, and at that time Border were adamant (and TBF consistent across multiple encounters, 'cos there was always somebody 🙄)that Visa waiver and laterly ESTA processes weren't valid for UK passport holders crossing from Canada to US by land...

I’m assuming the DS isn’t an athlete or living in USA. Costs for standard students from the uk are entirely different. I went to the Fulbright talk and undergrads get nothing unless you qualify for a full ride at a top university (where getting in is unbelievably hard) or you get a scholarship. For marine biology that’s probably impossible. This takes a school that knows what it’s doing and very deep pockets. If the op has this, great. Otherwise stick to uk. No one thinks we are useless at this subject.

Pepperdine is one of the best places for Marine Biology (its in Malibu, CA) however it is also an Evangelical college with "open" prayer meetings held outside on campus which could possibly feel a bit oppressive?

I do think a year exchange is the best option given the political climate.

Harvard, Princeton, Yale, Columbia, Cornell, Brown, University of Pennsylvania and Dartmouth are the Ivy League. You are correct in that they give need based aid to those who qualify. However, absolutely none of these Ivy League colleges give merit based scholarships (based on high grades, while many other 2nd tier US colleges do.

I assume GB stands for Great Britain, but what sport does it refer to?

@FriendsinNameonly Yes. My DD got a merit award but it barely made a jot of difference. It’s really not available to many uk students in $ that make it equivalent to Uk costs. The American citizens get a lot more help but Uk dc don’t qualify. If he’s ultra bright, have a go, but otherwise accept uk is much much cheaper and easier.

@Muu9- yes, Great Britain. DS is a rower.

Sport is not marine science. Totally different.

Indeed - they are reaches for the vast majority of American applicants too.

But the only way to guarantee you won't get in is to not apply.

@mathanxiety Surely depends on how brilliant he is and what else he does to stand out. Uk dc don’t tend to do much. Also he wanted California or Florida. Duke is North Carolina isn’t it? What about Sats? Does he need that? Another hurdle and why not try for the best here?

Slightly off Tangent but Esta is absolutely fine for across land border USA/canada. We crossed between Canada and Seattle and again up in Alaska, twice in one day by road. What a scary experience for your dd.

My DS is at Duke right now, so I can comment!
My honest advice would be to hire somebody who specialises in this... Our school claimed they supported applications to the US, but I was so unimpressed and the advisors couln't even answer basic questions so I had absolutely no faith in their ability to guide my kids. I was getting a little too stressed out about the whole thing so we decided to bite the bullet and hire a consultant, I honestly couldn't have been happier with the decision. The US process is completely different to UK unis, it took way longer to write whatever hundred different essays they were asking for, they also looked for different things not just academics. I had absolutely no idea about any of that before!

North Carolina has a lot to recommend it, and Duke is a top notch university. Restricting yourself to Florida or California wouldn't be wise for a student who is seriously contemplating a degree from an excellent American university.

US universities look for potential as well as evidence of academic excellence. Hence the SAT, which assess thinking, reasoning, quickness of mind, accuracy under pressure. Hence also the extra curriculars ambitious American students rack up.

(Regardless of where they end up studying, British students should always have a few extra curriculars, in particular a part time job during their teen years. A degree alone isn't enough to get that good first job).

The SAT is all very well but not very demanding compared with TMUA/ESAT/TARA as used by the most selective UK courses.

@mathanxiety Not doubting Duke or NC - just saying what op said DC wanted.

I also think a job at university or volunteering is important. My DDs boarded so a weekend job at Tesco wasn’t possible. They did various things at uni though. I do think uk parents and some pupils think the USA is easier to access than it is. Sats prep is not usually available in state schools for example. Those in the know - know. Most don’t.

As an academic, I would only take issue with the use of the phrase ‘second tier’ in this post.

The Ivy League does have a superb concentration of research excellence (but it is not unique in this respect) and of course undergraduates can get an outstanding education there. But they can get an equally good one many other places. The Ivies are amongst the oldest universities in America, have produced a large percentage of Presidents, and confer a great deal of social capital. Much of the cachet as compared with eg Chicago, Stanford or Duke comes from the last attribute.

In particular the elite liberal arts colleges - this is a notion foreign to the UK - offer some of the best educational opportunities around. Some are about as competitive as the top Ivies for admissions.

But on the flip side, a top SAT scores isn't as impactful as a top score on the UK admissions tests.

SAT prep isn't available in US public (state) schools or most private (independent) schools either. Generally students just prepare independently online or sometimes with a tutor.

The US SAT is just one of many factors- I think a lot of universities use it to cut down the pool of applicants, but you can easily get rejected from an Ivy League school with a perfect or near perfect SAT score. It is not the main consideration, by any means.