UCAS firm choice order

[Mepop]

Hi Everyone, I have a few questions about picking firm and back up choices on the UCAS application.

My son has been offered conditional places at all his 5 chosen unis but most want an A in maths. He is doing 4 a-levels. Maths is his weakest subject could he put the uni with AAB and A in maths as firm choice (this is a contextual place so they reduced his offer) and then AAA with B in maths as back up choice?

Also one uni says they guarantee to admit if you drop a grade if you pick them as your firm choice. If he did that could go to the back up even if he got high enough to go to the firm choice?

Thanks.

He can do what he likes. When the Firm choice uni has his result they will decide if they will take him. If not the Insurance uni will decide if they will take him. Put the place he most wants to go first even if the offer is higher. He can’t change his mind on results day in, except by going into clearing.

Hey @Mepop well done to your DS on his offers.

Firstly, he can firm and insure what he likes. DS had the same offer for firm and insurance as he was not keen in the end on the course at his lower offer; I guess he was hoping the second choice might flex (luckily it didn’t come to that). So whatever he feels would be best is fine – and on the day some unis will drop their offer if they want you, as a keen certain candidate, rather than going into clearing. More so in recent years as well tho ofc it depends on a) the uni and b) the course.

I would just say tho, if they are all specifying an A in maths, I presume it is a very maths-based course (like econ BsSc)? If so, is he sure it is the best fit for him if it focuses on what you say is his weakest subject – will the course not be full of students who did get an A – and will it not be heavy on the maths?

To answer your last question, no, if he makes the grades for his firm, he will be offered that, and the insurance offer will disappear and be offered to another candidate. The only way to get the insurance offer in that situation is to reject the firm and go into clearing. Obvs he can check first if the insurance offer is in clearing!

I would just say tho, if they are all specifying an A in maths, I presume it is a very maths-based course (like econ BsSc)? If so, is he sure it is the best fit for him if it focuses on what you say is his weakest subject – will the course not be full of students who did get an A – and will it not be heavy on the maths?

This is a really important point. He isn't going to get better at maths just because he gets onto the course. You get over one hurdle (A levels) to simply move onto the next (passing first year) to the next (getting a 2.1 or above) to the next (trying to find a graduate job in a sea of graduates). Its really important that he studies a course where he stands a chance of doing well and not struggling.

Excellent advice from @clary and @Serafee .

It’s worth taking the time to get this right. DS should be happy about all those offers, not filled with trepidation, but he should think about whether courses requiring A in Maths are right for him.

I don’t like this gimmick of accepting a dropped grade if you Firm - it is a way of getting bums on seats without thinking about what is in the students’ best interests. Particularly true if you accept a lower grade in Maths for a course where it sounds like you need a lot of Maths. (Making a lower contextual offer usually works fine. My School has researched internally, and there has been a lot of published education research. Most results I am aware of show essentially equivalent degree outcomes between those admitted on contextual offers and other students)

If he has second thoughts, there may be some very attractive courses available in Clearing. Eg Business instead of Economics, or a less maths intensive area of Engineering, etc.

The best path to a good job is doing well in a decent undergraduate programme and making the most of the opportunities you find there. Much better than struggling in a programme that isn’t a good fit.

Best wishes to DS.

Also one uni says they guarantee to admit if you drop a grade if you pick them as your firm choice. If he did that could go to the back up even if he got high enough to go to the firm choice?

On this bit the answer is no. If he picks a university as his firm and they accept him then that is where he is going. The insurance offer will have fallen away as soon as the university received the a level results and that place will have been given to someone else. They may of course have a space in cleaning but they might not.

This is why you always, always put your favourite first even if it is asking for lower grades than another choice.

Thanks. It is computer science he wants to do at uni. He is likely to get an A star in computer science at A level. He got a 9 in maths at gcse and is predicted an A in maths a-level but it is his weakest subject and I think that A will be tough but not impossible to achieve especially doing 4 a-levels.

Thanks, OP.

Even though many CS programmes require that A in Maths, the degree to which they use it is quite variable. I suggest DS join the online forum The Student Room. He can ask current UGs at the programmes he has applied to about how maths-y these programmes are, and ask anything else he likes as well. Responses are usually thoughtful.

I agree 4 A levels makes this more difficult.

Best wishes to DS

Why is he doing, or at least continuing with, 4 if one subject is a slight struggle? Would he drop it?

I don't think he can drop it now if his offers have been made based on 4 A levels. I agree 4 A levels is a bad choice unless one is further maths but its done now.

If the offers have been made on 3 AL’s you can ask each School that has made you an offer whether the offer would still hold if you dropped an AL (not a required one).

If the offers you want allow it, you must notify UCAS formally that you are doing so. Also, get the permissions in writing (so best enquire via email) and save them!

If you don’t follow these steps then technically the offers may be withdrawn, so it’s important to follow procedure.

Maths is the only required A level for any of his degree choices so he cannot drop it. And that is the subject he would have been most likely to drop. He likes maths just seems to have to work a lot harder at it to get an A than in his other 3 subjects. And he is likely to get As or A stars in the non maths a-levels.

It seems astounding that computer science at a-level seems to be of little use but I guess that is because not all 6th forms teach it? He likes his other choices so has refused to drop any of them and his 6th form hasn’t encouraged him to.

CS A level isn’t actually required for doing CS, though, usually. The question is whether dropping an AL would help DS with Maths?

It may help to see whether any at his choice institutions on The Student Room have faced thus dilemma and, if so, how they resolved it.

PS to say nothing of his other choices

It sounds like he's doing really well and while in general I think 4 A-levels can be too much, it's madness to talk about dropping maths or CS at this stage, esp when he wants to do CS at uni and they all want maths.

Also, although CS isn't required, the A-level is hardly 'of little use' to someone who's into CS. The unis can't insist on it as the teaching for it at A-level is so patchy, and some degrees make a big thing of how you don't need to know any coding etc because they start from the basics on the degree, which is reassuring for those who haven't studied it, but doesn't mean there won't be lots of students who are already avid coders whether via CS A-level or having self-taught it.

There are also unis who don't need A-level maths for CS degrees and don't have very mathsy modules, which suits some people, but still doesn't mean it's wise to drop it if you're going for more mathsy CS degrees and are good enough to get an A at A-level. Everything's relative and in this DC's case, I think the 'weaker at' doesn't mean some big struggle and no need to drop anything. Just lock in and do his best and see what results day brings.

That's all an aside really. In terms of the firm and insurance, don't be distracted by the 'we'll do xyz if you firm us' bribery if it's not where he'd prioritise otherwise. Focus on where he genuinely wants to go and order accordingly. Unless we're talking top level unis like Imperial, there may be wiggle room on the day if he misses a grade by a few marks, but it sounds like he may have a back-up that's a true safety net anyway. And congrats to him on all 5 offers!