Is St Andrews considered a top university in the UK?

[ThatOliveRobin]

From an international perspective, I’m a bit confused by the gap between St Andrews’ global QS ranking (around 113) and its strong reputation within the UK.

How is St Andrews generally viewed by British students and parents, and which UK league tables are considered the most relevant?

Actually it was a DfE performance indicator as well till last year.

In my experience, and I caveat this was a long time ago.

if you’re doing biochem, go to Dundee. Its biochem is outstanding, as is its allied sciences. The links with nine wells and other research institutions like the crop research centre means is research/academia is your plan it can’t be beat.

ime the way Scot’s uni’s work mean the competition kicks in in second year.

first year is basic sciences equivalent to a’level. Physics, chemistry, biology. The entire intake do this.

second you choose more specific modules. Usually 3- anything from botany to anatomy to microbiology to pharmacology, medicinal chemistry and biochemistry.

at the end of year 2 you can choose your degree. There are roughly 30 places. So you need excellent grades in your yr2 exams as you’re competing against the other 100 or so kids who took the yr2 modules.

the benefit is if you do biochem in 2nd year, but hate is you can switch to something else relatively easily. You can also do combined degrees such as anatomy and biochemistry.

then the final 2 years are specific to your chosen degree.

University of study doesn't enter into any of the scored criteria for education jobs (advisory, teachers, headteacher) either.

The student experience at St A’s cannot be beat. That’s why it is so highly regarded.

It is if course a proper, doctorate-granting university. Of course it has good research programmes. Nonetheless the singular strength is in teaching and learning, rather than research. The ethos has much in common with the elite American liberal arts colleges.

The QS rankings aren’t great because they can be gamed; but the discrepancy between the British league tables and the QS ranking of St A’s cited by PP is the most predictable one I can think of.

Biochemistry at St Andrews - well worth a visit as the new science building is amazing. The neuroscience building is in a beautiful courtyard one of the oldest parts of the uni so they get both experiences.

You've missed out Imperial... which is on par for some subjects with Oxbridge (Engineering courses, CS) and is similar to LSE in prestige.

But the entry requirement here is AAB for A Level
www.st-andrews.ac.uk/subjects/biology/biochemistry-bsc/

That is for first year. PP was talking about direct entry to second year, which is more akin to first year in England.

I don’t think most courses allow direct entry. Perhaps for international students. Paying for 4 years is a huge factor in decision making but it doesn’t seem to dampen applications

There are about 35 courses (all STEM), plus associated joint honours courses, that you can apply for direct entry into second year. This includes UK students.

Interesting. Mine did single honours stem, had top grades and had to do 4 years. Maybe it varies between joint and single

Did they apply for direct entry to second year?

Maybe they didn’t have high enough grades for direct year 2, or didn’t they apply?

She did ask. She had 9s and As? I’m sure all St Andrews students have the grades. Perhaps it’s a cost thing - she says everyone on her course was doing 4 years

when did she ask? Before applying?

No she asked on results day

St Andrews is highly regarded. Not just in the UK, but in the USA as well, whose students make up a sizeable minority of the undergraduates. It’s small, remote, charming and hard to get into. It is a “stone” university- arguably a more prestigious group than the Russel Group.

The specific course mentioned by the op evidently does though.

My son did a history undergraduate degree and then an MLitt degree at St Andrews.
Very difficult to get in for Scottish students, you need top notch grades due to limited places ( unfortunate side effect of free places).
He had a huge choice of modules and subjects to choose from and seemed to have more contact hours and access to tutors than friends studying similar subjects in other Scottish universities. It has high student satisfaction ratings for a reason. After the open day he didn’t want to go anywhere else!
He wasn’t bothered about lack of choice of nightclubs but enjoyed the pubs, cafes and there is a huge choice of student clubs and sports with a high level of student participation, not to mention the Beaches!. He liked the ease of meeting friends that the small town facilitated and didn’t find it claustrophobic ( mind you we live in a tiny rural town!)
If you have a studious child who would enjoy the flexible structure of a 4 year degree, wants to try lots of different activities and meet people from all over the world but isn’t bothered about clubbing it’s ideal and has always attracted that type of Scottish applicant well before any royals turned up.
i did a deep dive into entrance statistics when DS was applying, the minimum requirements only really apply for contextual applications average offers are higher. The order of difficulty for getting a place go ( hardest to easiest ) Scottish - rUK- International.
Even in the 80s you needed good Highers to get, in As and Bs, but that was the same for Edinburgh and Glasgow too.
I’ve been led to believe that the new 5 year medical degree is primarily designed to address the shortage of GPs in Scotland and is designed to reflect that, good to have a choice!
The only thing I don’t like about St Andrews is the style of marketing they use to attract American parents, who seem to then call it an “ elite” university and also to think it’s unique, neither term appropriate IMO.
Rents are expensive but they seem to be everywhere now, DS3 is paying what I regard as far too much for a rather grotty flat in Glasgow.
I agree with what others have said about choosing based on the strength of the department your child is interested in studying.

The School of International Relations at St Andrews states that it ranks number one in the UK, but internationally is it that well known? Oxbridge does not have IR but internationally they rank above St Andrews in Politics / IR

is International Relations a top specialism of St Andrews?

In which league table, @lighttherapy ? The different tables prioritise different things.

Again, this probably has a teaching and learning focus or similar. In the last UK-wide Research Assessment (REF 2021) St Andrews ranked equal 24th in Politics and International Studies, the umbrella category.
International league tables tend to weight research, so I suspect this is a national, student-centred league table. Nothing wrong with that.

https://gostudyin.com/study-in-uk/study-guides/best-universities-international-relations-uk/

https://www.theguardian.com/education/ng-interactive/2024/sep/07/best-uk-universities-for-international-relations-league-table

Thanks, @Pacificsunshine .

The Guardian League Table is very focused on the student experience.

I think it's important how well academics and unis are doing in research terms. Good teaching is important but to be taught by those advancing research in their subject areas is a great thing.

That said there are two things that might put me off St Andrews. It's quite remote and it's a very posh person uni.