Is St Andrews considered a top university in the UK?

[ThatOliveRobin]

From an international perspective, I’m a bit confused by the gap between St Andrews’ global QS ranking (around 113) and its strong reputation within the UK.

How is St Andrews generally viewed by British students and parents, and which UK league tables are considered the most relevant?

QS rankings are much more about research and post graduate.
St As is considered very good here because people think about undergraduate studies more

St Andrews has a very strong reputation in the UK and always does well in the league tables

It’s very posh.

St Andrews is highly rated in the UK for sure. It’s not in the RG but it’s one of those that kind of gives the lie to RG – for me, a place at St As or Lboro or Bath is just as prestigious (so to speak) as a place at Newcastle or Southampton or Cardiff (which are all in the RG).

St As is a very specific kind of uni tho and I wouldn't want a DC of mine to pick it just because it is considered "top". It's a small town (like about a third the population of Loughborough, which often gets called on here for being small and non-lively (fair enough tbh)) so not a big city experience; it's a fair way from a lot of places so unless you live in the N of England or in Scotland, travel to and from will be ££; and it's a very small university, about 10,000 students, which is half the size of Bath and a third of the size of Brum, just for example. So while it has many positives, it is not for everyone and I would look at all aspects before listing it on a UCAs form.

Thanks — which UK league tables would you say are the most influential or widely respected?

Three UK league tables are The Times, The Guardian and The Complete University guide.

They measure things a bit differently to each other but a university.that does well in all three for a subject has a good reputation in that subject.

The Guardian's league table is known for having a few outliers. The Times and CUG are more consistent generally.
https://www.thecompleteuniversityguide.co.uk/league-tables/rankings

https://www.thetimes.com/uk-university-rankings

You need to look at them all, as they all have different performance indicators. For example, the Guardian league table doesn’t use research as a performance indicator ( which is ridiculous frankly).

You need to look at the subject or discipline area as well. For example, my university is regularly in the top 3 of all league tables for my discipline, but isn’t particularly well thought of in other disciplines, although we’re a top 100 in the QS.

You might also want to look at the KPIs and methodology used in the QS rankings. I’ve just done the survey, and frankly, it’s mostly reputational. Whereas the UK newspaper-based tables use metrics that are used nationally in evaluation of universities by funding bodies and other surveillance bodies.

it's more important to check subject rankings rather than specifically the university IMO but actually you also need to know what you are looking for out of a course ( some courses eg. Biomed and Psychology need professional acrreditation to pursue certain career paths) and I would never choose solely based on any ranking. I think the CUG is pretty informative ( St Andrews for eg. is second after Oxford and above Cambridge for my dd's subject); the Times is so-so but overall strangely Scottish biased for her subject...... but the Guardian is absurd !!

If the table includes achieved ucas points as a metric, I’ve heard it said that the weighting of the Scottish Highers vs A levels can lead to a bit of an artificial boost for unis with a lot of Scottish students. But I don’t know if that’s much of an effect or not.

In the newspaper ratings it’s usually in the top 3 and has come above Oxford and Cambridge on occasion. It’s very small and very hard to get into - a high % of applicants for places. It doesn’t have an entrance exam like Oxbridge which is one reason. However the grades to get in are very high. Students tend to love it as it’s got a great social scene within the halls and the beach etc. Some would find it too small. Americans seem to love it due to the Scottish / golf angle so a lot of Americans go there.

I’m genuinely confused by this hierarchy of universities. In over 20 years in HR, in sectors including medicine, government and finance not once has the school or university that someone attended been a factor in any recruitment or other employment decision.

What happened to studying something you were interested in in a place that’s suitable for you?

St Andrews is posh and people go there for status more than for the quality of the teaching. Prince William effect hasn’t helped.

in Scotland where there are ‘free places’ for Scottish students it is often least desirable because of its size, no night clubs etc. It’s also favoured by private school kids along with Durham and Oxbridge.

St Andrews is highly rated in the UK for sure. It’s not in the RG but it’s one of those that kind of gives the lie to RG – for me, a place at St As or Lboro or Bath is just as prestigious (so to speak) as a place at Newcastle or Southampton or Cardiff (which are all in the RG).

RG isn’t some kind of externally moderated assessment of standards - it is simply a group a universities that decided to work together to access research grants.

Yes it is indeed.

It's very much a 'lifestlye' choice kind of uni. If you're looking for a city, nightlife, clubs, gigs, you don't choose at Andrews. If you're looking to sit in pubs/coffee shops, walk on beaches, engage in historic and weird traditions then it's great.

It is quite an expensive place to rent as a student so quite a few live in Dundee (30mins drive away) where accommodation is amongst the cheapest of anywhere and there is nightlife, clubs etc

It’s important to say that a lot of companies are doing blind recruitment including the name of the university being redacted.

And I agree with a PP, I’m not sure how often where you studied genuinely helps your career. I think it’s more about bragging rights for the parents…

Yes there are many very strong non RG universities.

in fact I would argue some of them aren’t RG because their research is so strong they don’t need RG marketing or money. Dundee, for example has one of the top medical/biological science research set ups in the world, yet aren’t RG. There’s a good story about a Dundee taxi driver that used to run guest lecturers from the airport to the uni, and got a little book for them to sign. Reads like a who’s who of top scientists.

i wouldn’t place too much faith in tables. Unis aren’t homogeneous, and all have different strengths and weaknesses. Ex-polys tend to be very strong in “newer” and taught courses, older uni’s are better for pure academics and if you want to follow that path.

st Andrew’s is generally thought to be alongside the Durham, Lancaster, Warwick unis. Just below oxbridge, but slightly above Manchester, Leeds etc.

st Andrew’s while small benefits from proximity to the other big Scots unis- Dundee, Edinburgh, Glasgow, Aberdeen. I only know the stem/medicine side but there’s a lot of collaboration and opportunity to work with other institutions.

if you’re after a small, highly regarded university St Andrews fits the bill.

I disagree. Working in the biological research area the uni and course was important.

we know which courses/uni’s teach critical thinking and research skills, and set up graduates for research and innovation. We know which uni/course teaches, and produces graduates with excellent practical and technical skills, but not so suited to PhD courses. Why know which ones produce graduates with great analytical skills to interpret data.

so given 3 biological science graduates for the same job, their strengths could all be very different.

St Andrews is well respected, the students are hard working and lots of contacts are made, so to speak. Currently there is a member of the Royal Family in attendance.
but it’s a small town, and whilst the students have fun, there’s a much better, bigger buzz and social life in neighbouring Dundee.
some subjects such as medicine, it really wouldn’t matter what uni you decide to go to, as no one will look at one uni more favourably than another when it comes to post grad jobs. In other subjects it might be more important. St Andrews Medicine they have to relocate anyway for clinical years. Most of the students I know get bored by the end of their second year, ( limited student jobs, hefty rental costs and lack of social life)

It has an excellent reputation.

But also worth considering lifestyle too. It’s a small, rural town with limited nightlife, shops, services etc. accommodation is very expensive and the student body are predominantly privately educated, wealth and/or international students

if that’s what you want go for it but if you want something more cosmopolitan and less insular pick somewhere else

Interesting story re the Dundee taxi driver and the airport runs. Dundee university has an excellent reputation however it’s in severe debt just now. Maybe partly due to shelling out fees, flights and taxis to international speakers!

St Andrews has a higher private school educated cohort but the majority are still from State Schools. It also has a large number of international students so is pretty cosmopolitan.

However, I would disagree about all medical courses being the same. You can’t do a normal medical degree at St Andrews - you do a BSc in Medicine then move to another partner medical school for 3 years for your MBBS. They have introduced a ‘community based’ medical degree and that has raised a lot of eyebrows within the medical community - a medical degree with very very little hospital experience. I am not so sure that will be ‘treated equally’ when they qualify (first cohort is in their second year).

One of my Scottish DC was at St A and did not find it posh. They went there for the reputation of their subject, the beautiful setting (they don't need nightclubs to enjoy student life) and above all for the outstanding student satisfaction scores in teaching, student support and student experience all round. They had an amazing, positive university experience on all fronts. The so called Prince William factor didn't enter their head.