Advice on international development/dev economics degrees

[Delphigirl]

Hi need advice. My DD started at Exeter to read Arabic MA in Sept - lasted 5 weeks and dropped out saying she couldn’t do Arabic for 4 years and hated the vibe at Exeter. She is an unusual girl - very self contained and quietly self-confident with a good sense of self, but not interested one iota in clothes/makeup, plays bass guitar, quite quirky. The Surrey girls and jocks at Exeter were not her thing at all and she found the city boring. She said any future uni would have to be in a good, big city but also wanted a nice sense of community. I thought that’s going to be hard to find.

She has 3 As in geog, econ and Spanish. Gained additional fluency in Spanish in her gap year in S America. No maths but 8 or 9 at gcse (can’t remember - they were all 8s and 9s)

She is only now just thinking that maybe she might be interested in International development, or dev economics, something like that. Enjoyed the development parts of her geog and econ A levels and did some interesting development-adjacent work and home stays in rural communities in Peru and Bolivia.

So - looking at KCL international Development which could add a year in Spanish speaking unis in S America. Also SOAS global dev OR econ with global dev OR development economics (ascending amounts of economics). Also Bath Int dev and economics and Warwick Global Sustainable Developmrnt which gives you part of year 2 in a Spanish uni in Madrid within a 3 year course which is appealing.

I think bath has student demographics fairly similar to Exeter and is not the city life she is looking for. Pity.
Warwick quirkier in lots of ways but again no decent city life. Also not sure how well respected the course is with likely employers, and there is zero economics in it unless you do a joint degree with economics which she can’t do without maths A level.
Kings course looks great but the demographic might be too glossy? Def a good possibility though.
The more I look at SOAS the more I think it might be perfect for her - small community, great on development, in a big city. Could do some Arabic but I suspect won’t. I worry a bit about SOAS administration and finances though. Is it stable at the moment?

Does anyone know anything about these courses which can assist? Benefit of london is we have a flat there she could move in with her post grad brother who is already there - so just as cost effective as going somewhere out of london.

Bath and Warwick are not the city life she is looking for, but London unis can lack the communities she seems to want

what about Birmingham, Leeds, Manchester? St Andrews have a well regarded course but maybe not the city life she wants?

If Exeter didn't suit her, I don't think St Andrews will.

How about Liverpool, Manchester or Sheffield as big cities with good music scenes, if she plays bass? I don't know about this type of course but they are likely to have options.

Manchester has a good international development department, I will certainly get her to look at that. I’m not sure how warm and fuzzy a place it is, though. I went to Manchester for undergrad and london for postgrad and in lots of ways I found london to have better community, and Manchester to be more amorphous and gritty, but that may have been a function of my very specialised postgrad. St Andrews is exactly the opposite of what she wants I think!

My DD is at Manchester doing Economics (first year). I don’t know much about the international devt course but I think the uni/city would be a good fit for how you describe your DD. Mine loves the city (we’re from London and she knew she wanted another big city) but finds the student accommodation in Fallowfield creates real community feel. She was also looking for a very diverse student cohort and feels Manchester has that. Loads of music opportunities in city and at uni if she’s keen. Birmingham might be another good option? Campus for first year then student community in Selly Oak for later years - and a diverse student population and big city.

KCL is the go-to for this area (what do you mean by a glossy demographic?), LSE may also work. SOAS pretty errr right-on - great if you like your lecturers striking and peace camps…

Hi Titchy - I mean lots of groomed glamorous/stylish Europeans and others- just trying to work out what it was that she hated so much about the cohort at Exeter. I have to read the runes a bit with DD because she says so damn little. Maybe I am reading too much. My DS is currently at Kcl in the war studies dept and he is not groomed or stylish and loves it.
interesting you say KCl is the go to… do you mean for development studies or of the london unis?
Is there very much more striking at SOAS than at say Edinburgh?

Great to hear re your DS and Manchester, thank you. I think they are finally rebuilding fallowfield student halls, is that right? Oak house/Owen’s park were fit to be condemned when I was there in the 1980s…! My DS went to Birmingham and did very well there but I’m not sure it is up with the best in development.

I mean KCL as go to for that sort of course. If she doesn’t want ‘glossy’ then ignore my LSE suggestion. Yes I strongly suspect far more industrial and political action at SOAS than Edinburgh! Does she want ‘gritty’ then? Possibly a payoff to be had in that case - Manchester or Glasgow might work.

Sussex maybe worth a look as well. Not RG but well regarded in this area - though a very left wing uni. Brighton same size as Ex but very different!

Yes, Fallowfield halls being demolished/rebuilt in stages. My DD in Unsworth Park which is fab accommodation (not cheap though!).

@Delphigirl Is your DD somone who felt, at school, she could be quirky and different but still very much accepted and comfortable within the school 'structure'. If so, great, but that might be more difficult to replicate at uni or in life beyond, where building multiple, parallel facets (so to speak) can be a way through.

Does your DD like to be engaged with new things on a serial basis and also can be sensitive to feeling 'hemmed in'. This is neither good or bad but is something to be conscious of when thinking about major decisions and dealing with (inevitable) patches of 'sameness'.

If some of this rings true (and I might be very wide of the mark) then it sounds like the 'decision hierarchy' might be 'which cosmopolitan city?' to give best chance to find people with similar outlook / exposure to a constant variety of potential experiences, 'does the course have plenty of optionality?' to allow for interests to wax, wane and develop and then 'is the student cohort of a similar academic standard?' so as to feel sufficiently challenged.

On that basis, KCL might well work. I think focusing on 'glossy demographics' is overthinking it; better for your DD to recognise that some sub-groups might be very visible at the start of uni but soon fall away in significance, particularly if you build social networks outside your course and/or uni. Would your DD have the opportunity to move to London in what would effectively be a second gap year?

Finally, and more left field, given what I have said above, what about, say, a Liberal Arts degree at Birmingham, selecting social science and language modules, or a degree course in Glasgow where the Scottish four year system allows for specialist focus to emerge more gradually? Obviously equal consideration deadline is approaching and there is a need to avoid knee-jerk decisions.

Thanks titchy - I can’t see an undergrad dev/dev econ at lse. Suspect not what she is looking for either. Sussex is not a uni I’ve ever thought of but can see it has a niche in dev studies - thank you! Will point her at that.

Such a thoughtful post @PerpetualOptimist thank you - and I really like your structured thinking.
DD was only different at school inasmuch as not interested in fashion never wears makeup, not very interested in what people she doesn’t rate think of her, as she is very secure in herself. Very comfortable at school with a wide range of friends, in two or three different groups that didn’t overlap otherwise. So I don’t know what happened at Exeter and why she couldn’t cope with the massed ranks of highlighted Surrey girls - most of whom are very nice I’m sure - there was certainly a group like that at her oxford academic school and she was friends with the ones she liked and not with the ones she didn’t. She just said she couldn’t be there for 4 years. I suspect in the mass insecurity of the first few weeks of uni some people were actively unkind to her and she thought “I’m not having that”. So I’m sure any big city uni will have a greater diversity of people and I hope she will get back to her usual attitude of having a wide group of friends of all types. But a uni full of finance bros and girls with goyard bags would be off putting.

you are right that she likes to be involved in new things on a serial basis - and likes to get really good at them. Hence the huge focus on bass guitar for three years where she became really excellent and read every biography of rock guitarists along the way, and the recent obsession with cooking (working in a gastropub kitchen as a chef) and flirtation with thinking she wanted to go to culinary school. So is wide ranging multidisciplinary degree is probably what she wants.

DD could move to london a few months before uni starts to get to know london and maybe pick up a chef job, but she is thinking about going back to south America to get her Spanish really secure. She could do a year abroad at kings in a Spanish speaking uni in south America or Mexico as part of the int dev degree which she finds interesting.

Re liberal arts /glasgow - she needs to be excited about a specific program to be tempted back to uni again I think.

Sussex is number 1 in the world for Development Studies and is a great university just outside a fab city (Brighton ).

Does anyone know anything about global sustainable development at Warwick? It hasn’t got the good city that she is looking for but she has family members and quirky friends who have gone there and been very happy.

Undergraduate Politics, International Relations and Development courses - University of Birmingham https://share.google/MvTdZ12tQkvy023qP ?

Several variations, including 'with Spanish' and 'year abroad' variants. (Not to mention, at DD's gradiation, there seemed to be yet mire people whose degree title seemed quite unlike anything I remembered from those available when DD was looking at potential universities and courses...). We know Birmingham grads who spent their year abroad in South America (different degree courses, and a while ago now, but it seems unlikely that the university would facilitate this for e.g. a Biosciences student and not IR / Development).

DD did IR with French and went on (Leeds) to an LLM in International Law and Global Governance. If anyone in either place took the slightest bit of notice of DD's idea of 'dressing up' being to wear a new pair of jeans and the only time I've ever seen her wearing make up other than the odd application of a weird colour of nail varnish was the night of her year 11 prom, then either they kept their opinions to themselves, or she ignored them.

Thanks @marchingfrogs. Lovely to hear about your kids! DS1 did politics at br with a year abroad, got a 1st and is now doing a really well regarded masters at Kcl. It did really well by him. But for that reason I doubt she will want to go there, it feels a bit like “his” place, although I will check. Leeds is def on the list.

This is my sector, and it's a tough sector to get a job in at the moment. My thoughts would be (1) it's great that she wants to keep up her Spanish as a second or third language will be important for employment, and (2) I would pick a city where she could get experience, either volunteering or internships. She'll need something that sets her ahead of her peers, and I don't think she'll get that just from the most prestigious uni/course. She'll get it from doing a project with an international NGO, or an internship with an international organisation etc.

Good luck to her!

Haha - DS1 was also at Birmingham (graduated a year before DD started, but was still living there). DS2 also applied, and joked that he should gp, just to make it a family tradition, but in the end, firmed his 'true love', UEA.

DD did really fancy Leeds (she would have been in the last intake, I think, for the particular course she applied for), but - sadly, accurately, as it transpired - reckoned that she was not going to make her predicted A in French, which was the one non-negotiable subject grade in her offer. Birmingham offered unconditional if firmed on the strength of her AAA predicted grades, so she chose that safe option. And kept quiet when the first lecturer mused as to how things would turn out with their cohort, the first for whom the entry requirements had been increased from ABB to AAB...

Great advice, thank you. I do think london may be the place for her. She’s trying to see if she can combine some intensive Spanish in south/Central America with meaningful volunteering in the next few months.
as someone in the sector do you have a view about soas v Kcl? Or is it more about the languages and experience?

I think she should pick the course she likes most, after all it's a love for the subject that will shine through and help her persevere to find her niche. SOAS is such a unique place, with a fantastic global reputation, but i think she'll love it or hate it. I do wonder if SOAS might pigeon hole her a bit if she decides to go in a different direction after uni? I don't think she can make a bad choice here, and completely agree that London might be the safest bet.

Thank you very much. She has a good friend at Ucl - I think I will send her to london to meet up with her and have a good look around soas to see what she thinks.

Sussex is rated 1st in the world for Development Studies and they offer the option of International Development with a Language (which includes Spanish post A Level but also Arabic from beginner level, if that were still of interest to your DD?)

As mentioned upthread, Brighton is a lively city and famous for embracing quirkiness and being open and diverse, so could be worth a visit? Plus it is easy to get to London on the train, for weekends or even work experience etc.

Anyway good luck with it all hope your DD finds something that makes her happy!

Also, forget to say Sussex is a campus university so has a “community vibe” in addition to the advantages of lively city life.