Engineering - MSc or BSc?

[TheGander]

My son is taking a year out and applying for an engineering degree. He’s asked me whether it’s better to go for a BSc then apply
to convert to MSc, or go straight into a 4 year MSC course. I know he’d be more employable with an MSc but I think he’s slightly intimidated by the 4 year commitment. If he’s better off going for MSc at this stage it would’ve good to know! Thanks for any advice.

I think a BEng with a year of work experience would beat a MEng on the job market, but I'm not certain.

Some courses will have a year of general engineering before specialising so that might work for him.

My DS is currently studying for an MEng in Civil Engineering. He’s in his 2nd year and loving it. He’s doing the 3 year undergraduate course, then a year in industry, then coming back to do his MEng. He tells me a lot of his classmates are doing it this way.

But the MENg includes a year of work experience, that’s the point (although I’m under no illusions that it’s easy to find that work placement)

Both BEng and MEng can come with a year in industry

They can, but in reality I’m pretty sure it’s only a minority of students who do this route with either B or M and placements aren’t easy to come by.
For the majority who don’t, what they should be doing is good relevant internships in the summer vacations. A 4 year masters gives more opportunity for these than the 3 year course - it’s quite hard to find really good ones in the first summer because they aren’t yet far enough through the course.

Indeed @ErrolTheDragon

@ErrolTheDragonTrue, but I think it does depend on the type of Engineering course. For example, in my DS year, there are 80 students on the Civil Engineering course and 300 on the Aeronautical Engineering course, so it follows that jobs/ placements will be more available for the civils.

My DNeice applied for MEng, got offered BEng and accepted.

She's currently on course to get moved to MEng and says there is a fair bit of movement of over and under achievers at year end.

@Muu9 No it doesn’t. Not at all in a company with a CEng training scheme. Dc won’t be on it with a BEng. Work experience for a year can be low level and not at a professional grad level. It might be in a non professional company offering no professional route at all so work is of some value but won’t trump a MEng in many instances - but quality of degree will matter and ability to think for yourself.

I’d always suggest vacation work is as useful as a year out if it means dropping to BEng. Also a year out is hard to get and time consuming to apply multiple times with multiple rounds.

Well not for an engineer it wouldn’t. A chartered applicant (MEng) would be sought, not an unchartered BEng.

@Maryberrysbouffant just saw your post. No, MEng doesn’t have work experience. They are 4 years of academics. There are possibly projects but the year out in a company is an extra year for MEng and BEng, making them 5 and 4 years. Not 4 and 3 years. The student is then a year behind everyone else in their cohort in terms of getting qualified as CEng which is a gateway to the higher paying roles - certainly in consultancies.

@justgottadoit Civils students really should get jobs though if doing MEng. Surprised at number of aero engineers. In general, fewer employers.

None that I am aware of do, although I am happy to be corrected. However, it is possible to do an MEng (or BEng) with an intercalated year in industry. However, this will increase the course duration by a year.

Based on my experience, I wouldn’t let him get his knickers in a twist over BEng or MEng at this stage. It is common for students to switch from one to the other during the course for a variety of reasons. Some start with an MEng and leave early with a BEng because they don’t perform well enough in the third year to progress to the fourth. Or, they may want to do a separate Masters. Some start with an BEng and decide progress to an MEng. As long as they have the required grade at the end of the third year (2:1), there is no issue.

As others have pointed out, he will be a lot more attractive to a wider range of potential employers with chartered engineer status. An MEng or a BEng plus a separate Masters will facilitate this. The MEng being more efficient from the time and funding perspective.

Lots of good advice on here already.

If he’s intimidated by the 4 year commitment of an MEng he needn’t be - he can always choose to finish after 3 years. But it would make it a lot harder to get a career in engineering as the BEng misses a lot of what’s needed to get chartered status which is a big deal for engineers.

If he’s considering applying for BEng rather than MEng at some unis because the grade requirements are lower (ie they don’t require the Astar) then maybe he could pick carefully a bit here - as everyone has said, it’s easier to go for the 4 year funding then wind down later if you want. But if there’s one uni he really really vastly prefers over others, and he could get in to the BEng with his 3 A’s but not the MEng, then it might be worth dealing with the finance hassle as I think all of them allow BEng to switch to MEng if their grades are good enough (and conversely the MEng people have to have those good grades too or they may be asked to switch to BEng).

To get chartered you must have a masters or substantial suitable experience so the top professional qualification is very much delayed. IEng is of course a professional qualification but why not go for the top one if you can? Suitable experience can be hard to get. It’s just what is expected - it’s like a doctor missing a year. You would not think that was ok.

Overall l wouldn't be intimidated by the 4 year commitment. That's basically how long engineering degrees are, because you are usually going for a Masters. He'll have a blast at university and love it. And there is flexibility within courses for change of emphasis.
Loughborough do MEng with a placement year in industry, if that's of interest, I think this is never a bad idea and will be looked on favourably by employers. There's no need to worry about being a year "behind", getting Chartered is on a flexible timescale alongside work, and anything from about 4 to 10 years is normal.

@NotMeNoNo Depends on how you view earnings. CEng is usually higher paid for obvious reasons. Talking 10 years is 6 years of lower earnings. Employers don’t see that many who have had a year out and if it’s not wholly relevant, don’t rate it over a relevant summer job. Loughborough grads are not out earning everyone else.

Thank you everyone, it’s such useful information. We don’t have any engineers in the family so it’s a learning curve and this has helped greatly .

Is there any chance your DS would qualify for a contextual offer OP?
My DS received an offer of AAB for the MEng at Durham, he ended up exceeding it but it took the pressure off a little. He's there now living his best student life

Well if earnings were the only priority, best not go into engineering at all.

What would you suggest as an alternative?

Sorry, being flippant! Engineers are always complaining about our low pay. In reality it's pretty average professional pay, similar to teachers, surveyors, civil servants I guess, but not usually up there with law/banking/financial sector. You can still go into those grad professions with an engineering degree, though.

@NotMeNoNo Well not everyone can be a city big earner. It’s significantly more difficult to get the job too! A CEng will earn well if they work for a decent company and get promotion. Just working quietly in the background probably won’t pay as well. Ambition is key, as in most jobs.

No, he went to a grammar school so no chance. If there was, I’d be all over it!