Graduate jobs offers and progress

[LossOfMarbles]

Wondered how everyone’s DC are getting on. DD was lucky and has 2 offers, one from her internship and another from a Big 4, so has an interesting dilemma. It’s been a slog with multiple applications (the process for internships and grad job applications are so arduous compared with ‘my day’) and a lot of work on top of study and part time jobs.

I can gr river how much mor rod a slog it is now compared to when I was doing it. The rounds and rounds of process, the rarity of actually getting a rejection rather than just drifting off in silence.

The processes are crazy. DS has spent the past two weeks doing endless online applications and psychometric tests. It's like a full time job in itself which is difficult when they are still working hard on essays etc.

Such long processes. It certainly tests their resilience.

This will be my DS this time next year, although he is currently doing a mini-slog looking for something useful in the summer between his third year exams and his master’s (integrated master’s course). And I’m already slightly astonished by how much time each application takes, mostly for him to not hear back (standard recruitment practice now, I know, but when I was hiring I always sent a form rejection email to every applicant - it’s really not that hard to do, and it’s only bloody polite IMO.)

I read in the FT that AI is a part of what has bollocksed up the process: there are exponentially more applicants because AI makes it easier to find and apply for jobs, and many big hirers are using AI to sift, and so aren’t seeing the slightly quirky but very promising candidates who haven’t used exactly the right searchable terms in their applications.

The upshot of all this, according to what I read, is that employers are increasingly turning back to personal recommendations for internships and starter jobs - ie, back to ‘it’s not what you know, it’s who you know.’ 🤦🏻‍♀️

My dd has spent a few good nights doing these tests too. Some of the questions are so bizarre.

anyway she got one interview after completing the tests and was offered the job a few days later.

delighted for her that she now knows she has a graduate job once she’s finished her masters and it’s with one of the top 2 companies she wanted to work with.

such a stressful time between applications, online tests, interviews, course work and exams but the job offer eases the stress a bit.

@PacificState my dd’s summer internship and the experiences she gained there definitely helped with the interview questions and also writing her application form too,

dd is also doing an integrated masters but here in Scotland it’s a 5year course!

Well done to her! Yes, the final year internship feels really important - poor kids having to cope with that added pressure while doing undergrad finals. We don’t make life easy for them.

@LossOfMarbles well done your daughter! When will she have to make the decision?

It seems summer internships are definitely more challenging but securing an internship seems to help with getting the graduate job.

I can completely see why young people consider leaving the UK as opportunities here are limited even for well qualified candidates.

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It is crazy. DS has three A stars, on track for a first and loads of experience in the industry he wants to go into (he has been lucky enough to have a job in the industry whilst at university). Still got to get past all the AI before a human takes a look at your CV.

Thank you, she’s accepted both until she needs to sign on the dotted line. Just in case one pulls out.

Mine did the same last year and kept 2 offers right up to August (as both had previous form for cancelling grad schemes). She didn't feel bad as 2nd choice operated a waiting list.

It's not always AI. DD's large company didn't use it. They just advertised for next years grad scheme so she knows. Her friend applied - all the same credentials, plus a masters, and DD gave her pointers for focussing her application - still didn't get past the application stage. There are just too many applying for every role. Yes, AI can make that easier, but even without AI, the numbers of applicants are huge and HR will be using some way to filter applications which means excellent candidates don't even get to stage 2.

I think you need a great application and a hefty dose of luck.

I think it's also easier if you are stem or finance. Try arts and heritage, literally nothing to apply for. Grad schemes don't exist and jobs are generally part time when advertised.

DD masters grad, finished this summer. Currently working in Xmas retail.

I'm afraid that's why I've always encouraged mine to pursue stem subjects particularly at degree level. Internships or placement years are so important nowadays (plus Spring weeks for finance). It's not enough just to get good A levels grades/1st class degree if no experience. In fact I would suggest they concentrate more on the internships than getting a 1st. You can also apply for internships in your final year for the summer after you graduate.

It was all very different in the late 1980s early 1990s when I finished my first degree. I prioitised my undergrad exams so was late in applying for a masters. Began on a self funded masters and more or less walked into a p/t teaching job at a local college because I had a 1st in a STEM subject. I also got teaching and research opportunities on the strength of recommendadtion from my prof and eventually a 3 year funded studentship from the uni. This emabled me to complete my masters and do a Ph.D. The internet was expanding and my subject (human computer interaction) was the new in thing. I got my postgraduate opportunities (including a year teaching in the USA) by being in the right place and knowing the right people. And also by being quite pushy and self confident.

Networking is even more importatt now for young graduates. You have to put yourself out there and hustle for every opportunity. I now privately tutor at postgrad level and I advise my students to be "political" in the sense of making themselves visible. I sat on committees and volunteered for stuff as an undergrad. I pushed myself into social occasions which were officially only for staff and postgrads and got off with it because I was older. I made sure people knew who I was. And I learned a lot about the power dynamics in the department and who it was good to align myself with. Thats what I mean by political - not party politics.

Well yes... But not everyone is interested or able in STEM. It's so sad we are losing all funding for anything else.

I agree about STEM but it still helps to maximise your networking skills and relationship building. Soft skills and cultural capital. This is where the more sociable and confident young people win out - perhaps over more introverted students with better grades. So perhaps work with an interview coach or a recruiter to develop some good interview skills. Maximise sites like LinkedIn. Networking isnt just about asking for jobs. Its about building relationships that open doors for you. After a meaningful introduction follow up with a brief contact thanking the other for their interest/advice.

Other than whatever it is they look for in the online part of the applications I’m sure DDs work experience went some way to help in the F2F part. She’s worked part time with no breaks since she was 15 (retail, hospitality, accounts), she tutors and then had a summer long apprenticeship. I think it shows you can hold down positions, be responsible, deal with the public and it must help with confidence.

I agree outside of the financial sectors the opportunities are low.

I definitely think work experience helps with respect to interview performance however 3 out of 4 final stage assessment centres my DD (non STEM) attended were experience (and school/uni results) blinded.

My DS has a grad job starting in Sept, which he secured at the end of last summer's internship. Getting the internship was v difficult though. He applied for a lot. He tailored each application, trying to hit buzzwords etc. But obviously everything else was the same (qualifications, work exp, etc etc).
He got to very different stages in a great many applications. So luck is def needed too.
For his actual internship he had the application form and CV AI vetted, then cognitive testing, then an AI interview on line (in front of a 'person' with a mohican!), then a human looked at his performance all 3 stages (first time a human had been involved) and decided to short list for a selection centre, then an all day selection centre on line with 90 min individual interview, team work project and presentation and individual presentation (on the hoof). Then he got the 10 week internship.it was paid at least.
At least he now has a grad job out of it.
So his final year has been stress free in that respect, although he is still awaiting a contract...
He is an art student and this is for a major supermarket.

then an all day selection centre on line with 90 min individual interview, team work project and presentation and individual presentation

Online selection centre?? Grief, I doubt I would cope well at that. I admire the young students as they must have resilience. Mine secured a Spring week with an IB (he was the only 1st year in the group) but decided it wasn't for him despite the potential ££. I hope he gets to choose a path/industry he would like but realistically he's likely to take whatever opportunities open for him.

she’s accepted both until she needs to sign on the dotted line. Just in case one pulls out

Sensible as that has been the graduate experience in recent years. Since 2008 there have been so many shocks to the economy, let's hope that the next few years bring stability and growth.

I have 2 young adults who studied finance or stem. Eldest didnt secure a grad job until the April before he graduated in the June, that would have stressed dd out.

however these jobs are in great demand, there are 80 students on dd’s integrated masters course and then also other students who graduate this year after their degree who are all looking for jobs. So it’s a highly sought after market.

i do know a few young adults who are working in jobs not related to their course because their future field of work don’t do these grad scheme which is a shame and it’s more difficult to get a job relating to their degree.

Yup he secured a 10 week paid internship without ever physically meeting a human being. On line skills are so important, he had to show enough in team tasks, without being over bearing, nor disappearing into the background, all on line. And the AI interview was the wierdest thing ever, so he said.
Tbh the actual job seemed quite easy be comparison.
On their first day the 70 of them were told that 15,000 people applied for the 70 spots.
Thats the odds these kids are facing.

Not everyone can do a stem degree! This is just ridiculous. We aren’t all made the same. Plus firms need a mix of grads. Maths based degrees don’t always produce the best employees for all sorts of reasons.

Grad jobs are down. Many wait a year after graduating to get anything. Plus, I’ll say this slowly - smaller firms do not all use AI! There are still great opportunities with smaller companies who grads overlook as the household names catch their eye. They need to look at a wider selection of employers and then they won’t be doing 8 rounds of selection. Companies have become stupid about this. It’s not as if the grads are better employees as a result!