Design Engineering

[dustybee]

My son thinks he wants to study design engineering - he is year 12 doing maths further maths, physics and product design ( his school does not do DT). The traditional tables don’t have design engineering as a search option. We think the best courses seem to be Loughborough, Bristol, Bath and Imperial. Are there any others people recommend ? I know Sheffield is rated highly for engineering but can’t see they have a design engineering course. Oxbridge? Strathclyde? Nottingham? Any thoughts welcome !

As an Engineer of 20 plus years, who now interviews as part of my role, trust me when I say that once you get into a working role, the Uni you went to is largely irrelevant.

You need to look at each uni under consideration:
How easy is it for you to get to for visits?
What clubs or hobby activities can your son do, normally discounted through the students union?
What is the nightlife like?
What modules are on the course, optional and mandatory?
What is the building like that your son will be spending the next 3 or 4 years in? State of the art labs or looking run down?
What are the halls like, where your son will live?

Choose not based on the name, but on the practicalities if being at uni.

Check his course is accredited for relevant chartership going forward.

Thankyou! Yes I agree with all the above- the issue is that design engineering as a specific course doesn’t seem to be offered at all universities - so I just wanted to check I hadn’t missed any that ran it. The ones mentioned have a dedicated course.

Obviously he’s too young to
know yet as he’s not visited places - but he went to see a sibling at Sheffield and really liked it for atmosphere etc - but as mentioned I don’t think it runs this particular course even though they have a huge engineering department

Strathclyde has a number of courses that might interest him. Have a look at the courses offered by the Department of Design, Manufacturing and Engineering Management. My DS is a current student and would definitely recommend it. Glasgow is a great city to be a student in and certainly when he started Strathclyde offered a number of financial incentives for English students, so the extra year doesn't cost as much as you think it might. Feel free to send me a private message if you want me to ask DS any specific questions.

Thankyou @MrsAvocet - that’s really interesting to know about possibility of funding towards the extra year- as that was a disincentive - will definitely look at that

Also, what you get your degree in might not translate to your first job 100%. We have a number of grad roles for which a general engineering degree is sufficient to enter into a specific role. Eg Aerospace engineering opens a bunch of jobs up.

I did electronics, then systems engineering and now reliability. I know very few people who's careers didn't go off in engineering related tangents!

Thankyou @PeepDeBeaul - do engineers think a general engineering or mechanical degree with relevant modules and later specialise, is a better option than looking specifically at design engineering ?

Yeh Strathclyde and Loughborough are thew two places I have heard of for design engineering. Both great unis tho in different ways. DS is a Lboro so if you want any info then let me know. (Not doing engineering tho– but it's a strong dept)

The other option is that English students whose grades are good enough have the option of going straight into 2nd year at Strathclyde. DS could have done this but decided against it and hasn't regretted it. First year was fairly gentle in some ways as a lot of the maths and physics was revision of things he'd done at A level, but there were still some totally new concepts. He thinks he would have found going straight into 2nd year challenging, especially whilst getting used to living independently, making new friends, getting accustomed to new ways of studying etc. But it's a possibility and I think it's always worth looking at every option.

The course at Imperial felt much more design than engineering when we went to the open day - much more creative vibe to it. On paper it looked like a dream course for my DC.

What kind of way might he want to go after graduation?

I think you can't go wrong with the four classic branches of Engineering - Chemical, Mechanical, Civil, Electrical.

A common first year which incorporates all branches is particularly flexible.

In my experience, we normally start out as a Electrical, Electronic, Civil or Mechanical and specialise when we find fun and interesting stuff as our careers progress. I do know quite a few who did general engineering, aerospace and Systems Engineering degrees too and specialised into one of the above later. Even a few engineers that have hopped from engineering to physics and from physics to engineering! There's no right answer to your question.

Engineers tend to have an insatiable curiosity. We follow what's interesting, not what makes us money necessarily. So make sure your son chooses a course with modules that interest him.

Look at some of the professional institute's too as those will tell you what courses are accredited or not. IET, IMECHE, ICE. They might give you a steer as to which uni's are "in" at the moment which was your original question.

Going to the "right" uni won't get you onto a good grad scheme after uni...demonstrating technical and people skills will be far more valuable. You need a course that includes group work, presenting, problem solving and technical breadth.

Not sure I'm helping with your question, just giving you more food for thought.

Very useful everyone. @RatherBeOnVacation he thinks he wants something creative plus engineering since this choice. He’s been considering architecture or product design but it looks like design engineering really ticks the creative / maths/ physics/ computer design boxes best. To be honest I had never heard of it as a branch of engineering hence the question. I wondered if it narrows options in future compared to general mech eng for example though. Having said that it does look like exactly the perfect interface of his interests- what will your son do?

@dustybee For decades DH ran a mid sized civil and structural engineering consultancy. Going against the advice above, they did trust some unis more then others and the quality of grads they produced. The degrees are not all the same and grads scraping on with lower grade A levels are rarely the best engineers. Of course interest in the subject makes a difference and DH didn’t want non commercially minded engineers. Time is money, No profits, no pay rises. Obviously some engineers do have the luxury of not needing to make money, but consultancies (with bills to pay) cannot be quite so lax! All engineers need to be problem solvers and understand basic engineering.

What does he want to design? DH designed the structure of buildings and bridges. Does he want to design products? I agree the four main areas of engineering provide a springboard for all forms of engineering and MEng is a quicker route to being a chartered engineer. The 4 unis you suggest are good but Oxbridge is general. How many grads stay in engineering from these two is a moot point. Cannot see why a Scottish uni is attractive when compared to the top English ones.

At Sheffield I would look at Materials Science and Engineering @dustybee This course allows various modules which prepares grads for a wide range of roles and grad membership of an engineering institution.

@dustybee I have a daughter - one of the not very many looking at engineering. She has decided on aerospace and wants to specialise from the off.

She is much more into the physics and maths side. Loves DT at A-level but definitely more STEM focussed than the creative side.

Has your son looked at the Dyson Design Apprenticeships? I know of someone who turned down a place on Design Engineering to do this and loves it.

Apologies @RatherBeOnVacation for that terrible gender bias! My DD in stem will be appalled at me 🤦‍♀️. My DS loves physics and maths but also v creative. ( loves creating things on 3D printers, really enjoys DT) but also really likes …I think not so much bridges / buildings- more smaller scale : integrating design and engineering I think, I didn’t know about Dyson design apprenticeships- will look into those Thankyou

Cambridge?

Requires A* in Maths.

https://www.undergraduate.study.cam.ac.uk/courses/design-ba-hons-mdes

we saw that course - looks amazing- but doesn’t seem accredited yet so we’re not sure if that would matter.

My older kids say everyone is struggling to get grad posts- so they advise degree courses where you get a placement year or similar - which I think does sound sensible - I’m not sure if people struggle as much in engineering to get jobs though

My brother did Product Design Engineering at Brunel. He now runs his own automotive engineering company alongside working in mining engineering.

My DC did mechanical engineering at Leeds uni - the 3D printing facilities there were great and used very early on. Some universities we looked at limited how much undergrads got to use these sort of facilities due to the limited number of machines (but this was a few years ago now). Leeds also do a Product Design degree.

Is it like Architecture, where (iirc) a course only gets accreditation once a cohort has gone all the way through? The first intake for the Cambridge Design Tripos was 2024, looking back at an old press release.

Have you checked Warwick? Used to
have a great DE course iirc

@dustybee Not sure where the accreditation will come from for the Cambridge course as it’s such a hybrid. It’s not producing structural engineers or architects so what is it, exactly? Accreditation by one of the engineering institutions matters IF you want to be a chartered engineer.

Product engineering (Dyson always gets mentioned - the power of PR?) is widely available.

Getting the placements is difficult and very time consuming. There’s been a lot of discussion on this on mn and many students are disappointed. The universities do NOT get them for you! Dc apply like a job and many dc will be applying for multiple opportunities just to get one. If that means dropping to BEng, don’t do it.

It’s absolutely vital to get a MEng if you want to be a Chartered Engineer. A masters will be needed if BEng. Plus if not an accredited course, no CEng at all. Dc simply not eligible. So it’s vital to understand the qualification route.

There are jobs! However the UK has a need for some engineers more than other engineers! That’s why I mentioned civils and structural engineering. There are jobs! Dyson - like a needle in a haystack!

https://www.thecompleteuniversityguide.co.uk/courses/search/undergraduate/engineering-design

This search brings up the courses you’re already aware of, and a bunch of others that are largely not very relevant, but it might be worth going through the list to see if there are any options in there that you’ve missed.

My son was potentially interested in this option a year or so ago, but is now headed more for mech eng. He had been considering product design a level but didn’t take it in the end. The courses look great.

I’d strongly suggest getting along to open days at the unis with both design eng, and other eng options, and going along to all the talks to find out more about what the courses are like. We did a few visits in y12 and it was so helpful to figure out what the differences between the different types of engineering courses are, how they link together, what the general engineering courses are like, etc.