Did your DC get any money from Turing ?

[IlovedLadybirdbooks]

DD is doing MFL degree and on her year abroad in France. Just been informed by her home university that she won't get anything from Turing.

Bit disappointing as her YA is mandatory and she only gets the minimum maintenance loan. Would have been good to get some help with visa, insurance and travel costs.

@TheLette actually a House of Lords briefing paper suggests UK universities had stopped some Erasmus funding. I’d be surprised if that was UCL or KCL though. The report says it’s post 92 universities. It’s a bit odd so few got it. 9 years later my DD and everyone she knew got Erasmus funding from University and they had excellent university contacts abroad too. No competition for money though!

As a single parent in an office job, I've been absolutely floored by the cost of my DD doing her compulsory YA for her MFL course. Minimal maintenance loan from SFE, low wage for her internship (c500 euros/month), visa requirements, flights, set up living costs in foreign country (Germany) and the need to demonstrate a certain income level to satisfy visa requirements in a blocked account up front.

Whilst her Uni has been helpful with the turing scheme application which she did thankfully receive, they were no help with the visa requirements. I never imagined when she chose her degree course that the YA element would be so draining financially and mentally with the organisation of.

It's not mandatory for a Sports student but it would enhance their CV and increase their chances of employment after completing the degree.

Amend if you've been through the care system which are hugely underrepresented in HE and are disabled you need a hand up.

I still think it should be given to MFL students who have to do a YA to graduate.

Not that my opinion matters to UoN ...

@IlovedLadybirdbooks The world and his wife does sports and business. Often these students don’t need to immerse themselves in another language. It’s yet another example of the UK not being remotely interested in MFLs as academic subject. Turing money now has little to do with academic courses requiring a year abroad.

I feel extremely sorry for MFL students with a compulsory year abroad and all the additional logistics and costs that come with Brexit.

However, being an au pair isn't a FT activity but a means of covering the costs of accommodation and food while a student attends a language course (or indeed other course of study). So it's very unclear why or even how universities can not "allow" au pairing, which is also great cultural immersion.

@CeramiqItz because they don’t want it as the only occupation a student does. It’s not academic and it’s not challenging enough. Erasmus meant students didn’t need to work and now visas are a nightmare. Plus the better universities (not Oxford!) have partnerships with universities so students swap. The students don’t just do a language course at a college. Many go to very good universities and participate in academic subjects in their chosen MFL. That’s far deeper immersion.

I completely agree with you, it's been an emotional roller coaster getting DD to Italy and that for us was just the bureaucracy as we are fortunate enough to be able to support DD financially. Ridiculous we had to loan DD £6,000 to be in her bank account for 2 months while her visa was being processed. So many people wouldn't be able to do that. Also DD had to pay one month's rent as a deposit then the first two month's rent.

I think most Universities don't have a clue on all the additional hassle. DD's uni ran fairly pointless sessions on health and safety and how not to get run over when overseas to cover their back and point blank refused to assist on the visa etc.

I'm not blaming the Unis for Brexit but they need to be aware of how complicated it is and provide the support.

The situation you describe (that a student is an au pair as a sole occupation) cannot exist as it is a condition of the au pair visa that the au pair be enrolled in a course of study, which could be a university course (though access to these is severely curtailed by Brexit).

I have a hard time believing that universities (which are not staffed only by small minded and/or stupid people) cannot get a grip on the many bureaucratic hurdles that MFL students face since Brexit when arranging their compulsory year abroad. I suspect that MFL departments are indulging in wilful denial of the issue because if they were upfront about it they would find it even harder to recruit students than they already do and they would also be more likely to be sued for misrepresentation (and I am somewhat surprised that this hasn't yet happened).

DD has an ADHD diagnosis and got the grant based on that. She got about £4k but most of it didn't come through till she'd finished her (optional) year abroad.

@Ceramiqthey are not curtailed if the uk university has exchange arrangements. Students should look for this option because a big of study as an au pair isn’t good enough for an academic degree.

I totally agree that money isn’t directed to dc who must go. It’s aimed at nubs to go dc with needs. I have no idea why that’s seen as fair. The must go students struggle whilst others have a nice trip to Australia! They aren’t even doing MFLs in many cases.

Universities simply don’t care about MFL students. They have different objectives with this money.

@Ceramiq most of DD's tutors are EU citizens and therefore haven't engaged with the reality of what Brexit means to a British Citizen and the department was hopeless with the YA co-ordinator on sabbatical. I agree there is an element of wilful denial and Italians are just so used to horrendous bureaucracy they just put up both hands and said Good Luck and go back to writing their Dante tomes.

@OhDear111 I totally agree I'd advise Uni applicants to thoroughly investigate beforehand what exchange arrangements each Uni has. When DD applied to UCAS in 2021 it was the tail end of Erasmus and I certainly hadn't quite clocked how challenging it would be and was probably naively optimistic!

As to the academic rigour of your year abroad requirements these vary by Uni so something to look at as well when exploring Uni choice.

At Oxford the Year Abroad is compulsory for language acquisition though not assessed as part of their degree. Their degree result is solely based on 8 or 9 written exams over two weeks in the last term of the 4th Year. They also have oral exams in each language in that last term. (An optional dissertation can substitute for one exam). This form of assessment doesn't suit all students so one to explore before applying.

Your Year Abroad activity is agreed with your College tutor who signs a certificate which goes to the Uni when applying to take Finals. In practice tutors don't really care what you do as long as you return with excellent language skills.

Interestingly one friend of DD in the year above her spent a semester studying at an Italian Uni but felt her spoken and written Italian wasn't good enough to secure good marks in language papers in Year 4 so went off after the semester end to a language school for an intensive course. The Italian Uni may have been academically stimulating but it didn't improve her Italian sufficiently. In the end they are studying languages and for Finals need to be able to translate both ways to a high standard and to write fluently in both languages studied. Italian Unis generally do module assessments by viva so there is no test of written ability.

Given that "graduate level jobs" will only be available to those with EU passports surely it's discriminatory for unis to demand that only this work is acceptable?

Spoke to DD last week who said she's currently thinking about applying to the language assistant programme, as she's thinking the work experience will be more valuable than just doing an extra year at uni.

Student finance for undergraduates: Continuing full-time students - GOV.UK https://share.google/8V95dZfNFELui0MrX

Has your DD not applied for the maintenance element along with her tuition fee loan?

Agree, you still get a maintenance loan for YA and tuition fees may be lower.

Is the British council programme any easier to organise does anyone know?

@JujaDD had written exams in Italy.

Most dc don’t get graduate level jobs abroad. But certainly the workplace mattered. Also DD had to do marked research for her home uni. The year abroad did count. They aren’t all the same. Two MFLs is way harder than one!

University departments are not allowed to advise on visas - and they do make this clear to students! They signpost where to find the required info but that’s all they can do legally.

You’d be surprised how much information is provided to students going on their YA - a lot of it is on the department webpages already.

But visas no, that one has to be done by the student themselves.

And of course they are aware of difficulties and changes post Brexit - it affects the whole sector! Not all MFL academic or PS staff are EU themselves and even if they are - they understand the difficulties only too well.

The problems are not of the universities’ making. Most MFL departments from what I’ve seen on these threads and my own experience offer excellent support in the face of a very changed landscape. You don’t go into a MFL degree with a year abroad with out an awareness of what lies ahead - the information is there and there’s a responsibility on the side of the student to research it beforehand.

Incidentally, I went on my YA IN 87/88 and never heard a whisper about Erasmus! But I got my grant (pre loans) and my local authority paid for a return flight per term which was great! I also did tutoring while I was there for extra cash - still an option for students now - online at least.

I don't think we are in disagreement - as I said above it varies enormously by Uni. I can only comment on my DD's experience which is of course only one university and one subject. A quick google shows how variable Uni requirements are. She like your DD is doing two languages and for her Uni the standard for both languages has to be at the same level as someone doing one language. Those doing only one language do more literature and cultural papers and a medieval translation exam.

@RainySundayAfternoon Again I think the support offered varies by Uni, and probably varies year to year depending who the Year Abroad co-ordinator is. I am sure it is excellent in many Unis. I went through all the slide presentations from all DD's YA sessions on DD's intranet. I didn't believe DD that she hadn't had more info. Having spent many many hours of time on Universitaly and Italian Uni website and comparing with the Uni information they were definitely given out of date info on how to apply to an Italian Uni when you are not an exchange student.

In fact applying for a Visa was the easy part - it was being accepted by the Italian Uni of her choice that proved impossible in my DD's case.

DD has an ADHD diagnosis and got the grant based on that.

Why?

She got about £4k but most of it didn't come through till she'd finished her (optional) year abroad.

I don't see why she should get £4k for an optional year abroad.

@IlovedLadybirdbooks This shows some universities are using the money for supporting “deserving” students but don’t care about MFL students and their needs. It’s just money used to further their inclusivity aims, not academic ones that are mandatory.

@juja I think we do agree! There’s a lack of clarity and it’s poor. I’d strongly suggest students look into exactly how the year abroad is organised and who gets what.

Not a single penny for DD who is currently on her semester abroad in France for MFL. She moves to another country in January for her other language. This compulsory year abroad for MFL is absolutely crippling us.