Uni fees to rise

[dearydeary]

This was reported yesterday but barely covered by the news.

Because the universities need a huge chunk of cash up front. This also allows for people to drop out etc., and not pay the same level of tax. It’s a de facto graduate tax dressed up as a loan.

But the suggestion (which was made months ago) is that the universities pay the levy not the students themselves.
Obviously this may see international fees increase but that will be an individual university decision not a government one. Universities choose their international fees based on multiple factors which include their international rankings, the price sensitivity of their main markets, the scholarships they can offer etc.

Unless they change the repayment terms, it won't increase the amount repayable for most people.

A couple of years ago they did change the payment terms and it made it so the majority of students would pay back near double what they would have done under the previous plan and barely anyone noticed.

Of course, Labour apply a tax and then say "oh but of course the organisation can pay it, it doesn't have to be passed on" 🙄 where have we seen that before?

Universities are in huge debt, how can they afford to pay that left, of course it will be passed on.

And? The terms and conditions of student finance have changed so it’s not a surprise his views have changed.
When I was doing student finance talks back in 2012 the interest rates were much lower and the term of the loan was shorter. The payment threshold was more in line with graduate starting salaries. It’s different now.

That was in response to another PP saying that they were just a graduate tax ie ML's previous position.

But how that looks will be different for each university. I work in international recruitment and my core markets are very price sensitive so we are very mindful of what we charge and what scholarships we offer. We may look to generate income in a different way rather than automatically increase international fees dramatically and lose market share in key countries.

It is though… it’s just that it’s not as favourable a tax as it once was.

The government pays out the cash up front regardless of whether students pay a tax or a loan repayment. The people the current system favours are those that benefit the most from their degrees; high earning graduates who repay the loan within a decade of so so pay a lot less overall.

Of course the other people the loan system favours is the government by making it look like a huge expenditure isn’t really government spending..,

There's been years of austerity with high inflation a cap on fees, and ever-increasing hostility to international students. Like many other areas, higher education is on its knees. We've already seen a merger between a couple of big unis this year and I think we'll see more.

At best, increasing fees in line with inflation will slow down the destruction of higher education. But either way I think we'll have a lot fewer universities in 10 years than we do now. As an overall market correction that might be a good thing but its going to fuck over a lot of students who find themselves halfway through a course at a uni that closes down around them.

It cant be a straight comparison in that there is a state alternative to private school.
I think approx 7% children are privately educated but the societal (and the government's own initiative) aim would be that far more than 7% of students go to university...
(Very few other options are advertised at my children's state school, the assumption is that the vast majority will go to uni)

The problem is that the following can be true at the same time

• The current fees - largely unchanged for a decade - are not sufficient to cover the costs of staffing, and facilitating university courses, and maintaining the buildings etc

• The cost of living and accomodation means - even with a maintenance loan - going to university is increasingly expensive and generally available to those with significant parental (financial) support

• the point at which you start paying back the student loan is basically when you have a full time job (the caveat used to be "low paid" graduates wouldn't start paying back until they earned x, whereas the threshold now is barely above ft on nmw)

DD started Uni this year, so this affects us. We did consider paying fees versus loan (but decided we’d be better off saving the money and having the loans). The Unis need the cash; some more than others.

I do wish they had announced an uplift to maintenance loans at the same time. There seem to be so many families who get as far as year 11/12 with little idea about how much they’ll be expected to contribute.

It's only an inflationary increase. It think lectures deserve inflationary payrises.

He’s not rowing back as such, it’s that the calculations change when loan amounts rise but the repayment threshold falls.

But it does differ from other loans in that you won’t be in a situation where you can’t pay it back and that causes you a problem - if you’re not working, you pay nothing, no bailiffs will come, no credit rating will change. So if you had a student loan, and a credit card debt, and a mortgage, and you came into a sun of money, student loan would be the one I’d pay back last. And the one where it would be worth calculating whether it’s even beneficial to you to pay it off early (which would depend on amount left, your salary, your age etc).

The actual, long expected, White Paper. 70 pages to plough through though - or just go to the Uni section. Affects England not the UK. Tuition fees in Scotland remain £0 for example - with education being a devolved matter.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/68f518ee06e6515f7914c7ce/Post-16_Education_and_Skills_white_paper_Accessible_Version.pdf

Tuition fees are not £0 in Scotland. They are currently £1820 for Scottish students. SAAS will pay this for your first undergraduate degree.

9% is not a small percentage when you hit 40-50k+. Fair enough if you had a fair shot at repaying it but the ridiculous interest rates mean middle earning students can end up paying much more than what they borrowed.

Apologies @MouldyPeppers . I was coming from what the more typical Scottish home undergrad i has to pay to attend Uni in Scotland, and phrased that rather poorly.

Thanks for people’s input.

Unfortunately, I do not have the funds to pay for private education and form part of the squeezed middle class.

I fear my kids are taking on a debt (however defined) and this impacts their ability to buy a house etc. Personally, I would not want to start out life with £50-60k worth of debt.

I think that Uni’s have been mismanaged. My DC is in her final year and has nine hours contact time and will be finished at the end if April having started in October! Value for money? When I went we started in October and finished at the end of June.

I think inequality will increase. The brightest won’t always be at Uni, just the richest!

DS has just applied and the goal posts have been moved for him and us 😩

Universities have to be funded somehow, and the fees haven't risen in line with inflation. The flagshaggers don't like foreigners so we have to bring international student numbers down. That means that UK students will need to pay more.

I have a dc currently at uni and I don't welcome the increase, but I accept its inevitability. Essentially, our kids just have to accept that, if they want to go to university, they will be paying a graduate tax for life.

flagshaggers don't like foreigners

Don’t you mean they love Hamas terrorists?

You can’t possibly say that all universities have been mismanaged.

If you don’t agree with tuition fee rises then what do you think should happen? I’m genuinely interested because someone has to pay for it abc we can’t keep operating on 2012 prices.

Your daughter will have known the contact time was for her course from the outset - or she should have at least looked at that. And are you including tutorials and supervision in those 9 hours? And just because tracing finishes in April doesn’t mean the university stops functioning at that point and stops supporting students - in May and June were marking work, marking dissertations, preparing for exam boards etc. Not to mention the support students can access from the careers service which can be vital at that point.

When you went to uni the funding was very different.

Your DD's short year and limited contact hours are a direct result of the restrictions on fees, shunning of international students and massive inflation that have occurred over the last couple of decades.

Agree that £9k ish is not enough to fund tuition, but it should be subsidised. we need graduates for lots of jobs across society. University isn't private school. Entry requirements should be higher (and properly contextualised to avoid people buying grades), fewer kids should go, and the government should contribute. All of those things are difficult to do, but its essential to find a way.

I;m guessing you had terms and your daughter has semesters?