London vs non-London uni cost

[bendix]

Hi. DD will hopefully start uni next autumn and I'm trying to figure out how much the parental contribution should be. She's just applied to medical school - three courses outside of London and one in London - and wants to do an intercalated year as well, so that's 6 years total.

Bit of background: I'm a single parent, currently getting child support on an informal agreement from DD's dad. She lives with me and sees him regularly. This will end next summer, as DD turns 18 and should be starting uni Sep 2026. Because of my household income, DD will only qualify for the minimum maintenance loan. My partner has moved in very recently and we share living costs (except child-related).

I discussed with DD's father and we agreed to try and help her out with the living costs in full, so that she avoids getting the maintenance loan. However, if she gets a place at a uni in London, DD will likely need to get the maintenance loan, as the cost of living in London is way too high (roughly £6-7K higher each year, compared to outside of London). Minimum maintenance loan in London, away from home: £6,853/year in years 1-4 and £4,485/year in years 5-6.

She will get the tuition loan in any scenario, as we can't afford to pay that unfortunately. That's four years of tuition, as years 5 and 6 are paid by the NHS bursary.

Are these yearly costs realistic? I calculated for 12 months (except accomodation, which is for the academic year only).

• accomodation: £8,500 (or £13,000 in London)
• regular expenses/bills: £1,200 (mobile phone, Netflix, Spotify, contact lenses, gym membership, dental insurance)
• public transport, train, travel to placements: £1,200 (or £1,700 Oyster London)
• daily living (food, fun, clothes, toiletries, supplies etc.): £6,000 (or £7,200 in London)
• holidays & gifts - not included

This brings the total monthly parental contribution to the figures below (which her dad and I would split 50:50):

• £1,400 if she goes to uni outside of London (OR if she goes to uni in London, but gets the maintenance loan)
• £2,000 if she goes to uni in London and does NOT get the maintenance loan. (I very much doubt we can afford this... especially in years 5-6 when maintenance loan amount gets reduced)

This seems insane and a bit of a shock if I'm honest, as it's much higher than expected and what I read online on various sites. My friends with kids in indie schools are laughing at me, as they say uni is cheaper than independent school. But, we've never paid school fees, as DD went to a state school, her local mixed comprehensive, for both primary and secondary.

DD is willing to get jobs while at uni, to supplement her income, but I'm not sure how much a med student can work during the academic year due to workload... so it will likely be more like summer jobs or one offs?

Have I over-estimated the expenses? Am I missing something? Is it really a good idea not to get the maintenance loan at all? Or is it better to take the maintenance loan in any scenario, and maybe save those money that we would have given to her, and give it to get as a lump sum when she graduates?

Apologies for the length of the message. Any suggestions, opinions about the various financial options and considerations are welcome. Thank you.

The likelihood of her being able to have a job alongside a medicine degree is very low.

She might be able to work in the holidays during the earlier years but summer jobs are very difficult for students to secure nowadays

@Fleurdelise The highest earning dc pay off earlier. As a result they clear the loan with less interest accruing. It’s better value to be high earning than paying over 40 years. It’s the low earning grads who should be very wary!

I’m not sure this is something to be proud of, how do you expect an adult to live on £2600 a year? £50 for everything is beyond tight, it’s less than what youth benefit claimants receive (you know, the bare minimum level that the government assumes people need to live on).

If you are trying to settle down, have children and buy a house in your early to mid 30s, you really don't want to be paying off a loan as well.

I don’t really agree with this as in practice, student loans are handled differently than standard loans particularly when assessing mortgage eligibility. Having a student loan wouldn’t work against someone in the same way. Plus, I earn £50k on the most recent student loan repayment plan which ends up with around £150 per month deducted in student loan repayment, so it’s not really the deciding factor in whether I can buy a house by the time I reach my 30s. I’d say the key factor in whether young adults buy a home successfully or not, is being given a deposit by parents.

FYI - in periods of low income or unemployment, you’re not required to repay the student loan. Payments resume once your employment income rises above the threshold.

I think we are talking at cross-purposes. You may be the exception, but most doctors, when they reach their mid 30s, are earning more than £50,000. The difference is that they often have to be highly mobile, switching jobs and areas every 2-3 years. The over-supply of medics is making this worse, so that a high flyer who might normally expected to sail into jobs is now competing for suitable vacancies across the UK.

The having to rely on parents also sounds miserable. I do not think this is the norm for Doctors, not least because probably about 50% at junior levels are from overseas. By both us and DD being frugal and with some help from Grandmother, DD was able to leave University without loans. She decided instead to save what she would have been her loan repayments, plus a bot more. She is lucky enough to be in a low cost area. (Indeed you used to be able to buy a four bedroom house in the town where she is working for £60,000.) She had expected to be able to find a job and train where she took her F1/F2, so bought about 18 months ago. We helped her a little so she got a three bed with garden in a popular area, but she could have got something smaller using her savings and a larger mortgage. The idea was that if and when she had completed her training and was able to settle down, she would already have a stake in the property market.

We thought quite a lot about it, and clearly it would not be possible in a higher cost area. Which is the reasoning behind my post. Doctors normally can't stay in the same place, but when they are in a position to settle will be earning a fair amount. Do they really want to be repaying loans through their twenties and early 30s at high interest rates for a promised deposit at the end. Do the parents hold the deposit for that decade and a half. What happens if the parents don't like the partner? What happens if at this stage the parents need the money more than they do? My feeling is that most young people, who are earning good salaries, would prefer a life unencumbered by debt repayment (or at least have less hanging over them), and without parents holding financial ties over them.

(That said, whilst there are no regrets about buying the house - mortgage payments were less than rent - it is going to be a pain given she is having to move to Australia to progress her career.)

Switching jobs every 6 months is more likely.

A bit of a thread divert, but I don't think anyone is counting the number of would be locums who are sitting at home.

We know that 50% of those who finished F2 in August had not got either medic jobs, jobs outside medicine, or jobs in other countries. From newspaper reports there also seems to be a problem with unemployment amongst overseas doctors who have finished fixed term contracts and amongst GPs. We also know that the Government is encouraging the NHS to reduce its reliance on locum staff. In short the number of people looking for zero hours locum work has grown and the opportunities have fallen.

So there may be loads of locums in Derriford, but equally there may be plenty more sitting at home waiting for the phone to ring. Every SHO in DDs current department is a locum - but loads of competition for the job she got. The "good wage" may also be a bit of a stretch. Once you factor in things like holiday pay (included in the hourly rate - as you don't get paid when you are not working) pension, insurance, training, GMC registration, etc the hourly rate is not so great. DD is almost certainly earning less in real terms than the person she is standing in for. She also has no idea whether she will be in work after the end of next week.

I don't think there are rules about joining NHS bank. Its just that they seem really inefficient and slow to process applications, references etc. A pity as hospitals are supposed to approach them first before going to outside agencies. Perhaps like the rest of the NHS they see doctors, other than the small elite on specialist training, as some sort of Temu product that can be ordered as needed then disposed of or recycled as it suits them.

My thread is going places 👍. I'm learning a lot from these conversations on the medics' challenges. I'm definitely going to bookmark this thread. Keep going, and thanks.

On costs: we were thinking £500 per month for living costs while at uni, but I calculated all year round, so that's where the £6K comes from. Depending on where DD ends up, that may or may not include transportation, e.g., if she will need a bus pass or an Oyster card. All the other bills (phone, Netflix, Spotify, contact lenses, gym, online storage) come out of my budget now, but we need to list them separately so that my DD's dad contributes to those as well, once he stops paying child support at the end of next summer. Her dad and I sat down together and made a conservative calculation (worst-case scenario, I guess). We will revisit that once she gets her offers (fingers crossed!) and chooses her firm/insurance, and we can decide on loans.

On the student loan. I'm VERY debt-averse and would prefer to help DD if I can. I understand the "9% tax, not a loan, only payable when income is high" narrative, but it's still a considerable loan, and DD will likely have to pay back the entire loan, as a medic, for her whole life: that, plus a mortgage. That's a heavy burden. Her father has the same opinion; we both grew up and were educated in a foreign country, and graduated debt-free, as the tuition fees were (and still are) low or nonexistent over there.

Unfortunately, while we both have good incomes, we still have mortgages (primarily due to the divorce - a story for another time), and our savings are not enough to pay her tuition fees. However, we will do everything possible to avoid the maintenance loan, particularly if she studies outside London. I tried to convince DD not to apply to a London uni, but she wanted to apply to her "dream" course, so that's that. I'm unsure if I agree with the statement that 'medicine is medicine' and it doesn't matter where you study, particularly in today's unbelievably competitive world. Also, DD has dual nationality, so moving out of the UK post graduation is not entirely out of the question. I'm sure a medicine degree from a top medical school (one of the top 10 in the world) will make her more competitive abroad, should she actually get an offer from the London med school she's applied to 😂

@bendix I think she will not pay it off for her whole life. I would still read what Martin Lewis had to say. She’s gojng to be a higher earner so she won’t pay as much back because she will pay it back quickly. Do not spend your savings on maintenance if that stops her having a house deposit. The loan, for high earners, is the best value as it’s paid off! You could save the money you would give her and fund other things.

Also - do a zero based budget for costs. Add in absolutely everything. Look at the actual costs of halls of residence. Be realistic but don’t guess.

@bendix I still think £500pm is a lot when transport and sundries (phone, gym, lenses) are covered. And there's no need eveb for a medic to be away from home for more than 10 months a year, surely?

Food genuinely can be £40 pw, £50 to be fairly lavish; on your figures that leaves £80 pw for fun. That's a lot and if money is short, it certainly doesn't need to be that much.

@clary DDs bought clothes with their money. There were memberships and fun can cost a bit. I think £500 is ok but depends on what that’s covering. DDs went to see friends elsewhere sometimes and ate out with them. Also went to sports matches occasionally and gigs/theatre. Not all students will, but some like to get the most out of the city. Depends on personality.

That seems very high, I’ve had 2 dc and a dsd go through university (last left 1 year ago) and none had accommodation over £6k, despite dd having a self contained bedsit as she’s nd. They stayed on the family Spotify, had mobiles so paid £10 a month for giffgaff, and only dd2 had gym membership which she funded from her general money. They got £150 a month for food, the basic maintenance loan and had £10k total each for all of university. All coped fine

I’m sure it’s possible to spend that much @OhDear111 but it’s more than is essential. Perfectly possible to get clothes as Chr gifts and live on less ££ pw. Op seems to be saying their figures will be a stretch - I’m just suggesting that the food and fun could be less. We all have to stick to a budget after all.

Accommodation costs can be all year once they move out of halls, which you have to in some unis as they don’t have enough hall accommodation.

@clary Not sure the op was looking at what’s essential or the London rent would be lower and so would the provinces. It does depend on who is buying what and lifestyle though.

Two of my five have been at UoL, the other three outside. A big difference is the maintenance loan is much higher for London.

DS1 managed to live in very cheap accommodation, and then he walked everywhere. Supermarket prices are the same as anywhere. There are loads of free activities in London. DD1 also at UoL but she lived at home for years 2 & 3, so didn't take her loan. Her first year the loan covered her expenses.

All of my DCs have made their own food, and took packed lunches, so had very little eating out.

Apart from DS1 (we were naive), we pretty much paid for their accommodation and phones. They paid for everything else.

Basically, don't be afraid of London because of perceived costs.

A few more points having read the full thread - boy, those medic grade posts are really over my head!

I have two DDs living in London right now - they have both graduated and are working. Both DDs pay rent of about £850 a month and both are sharing a proper flat with just one other person. One is in North London and pays £3.50 a week getting to and from work. The other is bang in the centre of London (by the London Eye) and pays the tube to Canary Wharf twice a week.

As for budgeting a large amount for fun money, but not expecting your DC to work ("because she's a medic"), doesn't make a lot of sense. If she doesn't have time to work, she doesn't have a lot of time for expensive fun. I know that the OP has not made this point, but it has been made by others.

My DS1 is supremely stingy - his fun when he was at UCL was playing University football, playing for a pub quiz team (which was profitable), and visiting free museums and attractions of London - all on foot.

@CraftyGin It’s certainly possible for medics to go out and have fun for a few hours. They are normal students but it’s a full on degree. Most won’t work! DD lived with one on a full loan and she didn’t work for money. Worked at her degree and had some fun! As she should! Both my DDs line and work in London and one did undergrad there. Both did post grad there. You need a certain amount of money in London and my Dc aren’t frugal! However you don’t need the best halls of residence or to live in the best areas so some costs can be controlled.

DD only gets the minimum maintenance loan. We pay her rent (which includes her bills, gym and laundry).

She lives off her maintenance loan which I think is under 5 k for everything else. She has no transport costs as she lives within walking distance of the uni. I do pay her mobile phone.

Be aware that once not in halls any house rent might be for 50 weeks - not just the academic year. Some cities are a lot more expensive for rent than others. Manchester is much more than Sheffield or Leeds I think. Places like Oxford and Bristol I think are expensive.

DD's rent is 1k a month which is what we pay, I also chip in a bit of money at the end of the month, just depending what I have left - might be £50, £70.

Wow @OnlyOnAFridaythat rent is high! Is that halls so x 40 weeks or is it £1k x 12? Ds2’s rent is £570 pm which is the highest he’s paid.

Be aware that once not in halls any house rent might be for 50 weeks

The Rental Reform Act, which should become law, changes this. Tenants can give notice at any time so would not have to stay 50 weeks.

(Whether this will actually have an adverse effect on the availability of student houses remains to be seen. Landlords will now be worried about students leaving after a few months and so be less willing to let to that market.)

Interesting point and may be most relevant in London, but in other student towns student houses tend to be in a July-July cycle. So if you have to start in July, being able to give notice doesn’t help that much. Perhaps over time it will lead to a more fragmented rental market with different start dates through the year.

The student housing market doesn’t really follow the law anyway as what are often HMOs are disguised and rented as single “family” properties so they may well find a way round these new rules too.

You’ve actually done a really thorough job breaking everything down — it’s clear you’ve thought this through carefully. Your cost estimates seem pretty realistic, especially for London where living costs can be quite a bit higher. I’d say it’s sensible to let your daughter take the maintenance loan, even if you could technically cover it. The loan terms are quite fair, and it keeps your finances flexible for emergencies or later support (like helping her with accommodation or a car during placements).

Also, yes medical students usually can’t work much during term time, so any part-time work would mostly happen in summer. It sounds like you’re striking a good balance between helping her and keeping things sustainable long-term.

There is no point at all in taking a tuition fee loan and not a maintenance loan. If she’s taking tuition then take maintenance then in London she has £6900 straight away.

You are looking at the pov of what it will cost rather than what you will pay. I looked at it as what I would pay and my kids worked out what it would cost and made their choices. One of my kids went to a cheap city (rent under £5k a year) and one is currently in London. Both have cost me the difference between min and max loan (£4.5k a year and £6.9k a year). The cheap city kid managed just fine - worked a bit on and off for fun money but didn’t stress about it. The London kid took a year out to save plus works, out of necessity about 15 hours a week. Both are happy with their choices. They have an amount of money from student loans, mum and dads top up to max loan, savings and wages - they decide on where they live, how they shop, what luxuries and basics they buy. If she wants to live in London then she will likely have to work, maybe take a year out, probably compromise of things like gym membership and contact lenses (it’s completely normal for working adults to not have either of these things and to prioritise food and rent). Lots of medics don’t work but some do - there will probably be a load of band 2/3 bank hca work in London. If she doesn’t want to work or compromise on what she can afford then she doesn’t really want to go to London in a serious way.

You obviously have no idea about medical school they don’t have the same long summer free to work like most other students do. So your £4200 can be cut in half