Shortlisting the shortlist (chemistry and physics / chemical physics / chemistry).

[ChocolateFrog5]

Having never been to university I’m pretty useless with all of this. I know the unis on the list are very good ones, beyond that, I can’t advise and most advice so far has come from 6th form.

The short list:

• St Andrews (chemistry and physics)
• Durham (chemistry and physics)
• Edinburgh (chemical physics)
• Glasgow (chemical physics)
• Liverpool (chemistry)
• York (chemistry)
• Loughborough (chemistry)

Predicted 3xA* in chemistry, maths and physics. EPQ A* . GCSEs all 9s except English Lang 8 and English lit 7. At a very good sixth form but secondary was/has well below average P8. Likely to hit contextual flags on postcode and FSM.

Career wise - wants to do research/R&D in physical chemistry or where chemistry and physics overlap.

Prefers the courses at St A, Edinburgh and Durham but isn’t the biggest fan of Edinburgh as a place.

Prefers the place/general feel at York and Loughborough but not so keen on the courses purely because they are straight chemistry - the content is absolutely fine when talking about just chemistry. Depending on the day either sightly prefers the Loughborough course or slightly prefers the York course.

Liverpool and glasgow seem good all rounders but neither would be 1st choice/isn’t particularly over the moon at any one aspect of them.

And yes, this is the shortlist. Several others have already been discounted for various reasons.

What put him off Durham with regards to the general feel of the place? DS did an integrated Chemistry Masters there and has just started a PHD in a field he found particularly interesting. I can’t advise on the other courses (although DS was also very tempted by York) but I’d say don’t be put off by the historical impressions of Durham as a consolation prize for not getting into Oxbridge, or as somewhere full of snobs. DS has found this couldn’t be further from the truth and has been immensely happy there. Pastoral and course support has been fantastic and he can’t imagine being anywhere else for his chosen subject. In part, a Chemistry teacher at his 6th form encouraged him to consider it, so I’d say your DS should continue to be guided by his teachers if they know their way round the subjects.

I would perhaps drop Glasgow and Liverpool from the list.

DS2 is in his third year Mchem at York. Well structured and supported course. Plenty of contact, he is loving it. The uni has a collegiate system too. Placement year in fourth year rather than third so potential benefit of moving straight into employment and not returning to uni to complete when friends have moved on.
No real downsides at all, York is amazing although accommodation is a bit of a bunfight and expensive. Paying £215 pw this year.

@SpamhappyTootsie sorry, that’s possibly the way I’ve written it. Durham, St A and Edinburgh were liked the most because of the courses.
Durham and St A were liked in general including the university and the town/city.
It was Edinburgh as a place that wasn’t liked. The course and the uni are fine, just the city wasn’t liked very much.

It's very easy to move between courses at the Scottish Universities because the first year isn't specialised so that might help.

What didn't he like about Edinburgh as a place? That's not a common response from a non-Scot?

I understand the assumption because of GCSEs and A levels. But we are actually from south west Scotland and moved south of the border about 10 years ago due to work. There is likely some Scot’s blood running around in there somewhere causing the dislike…..

In all seriousness though, I’m not entirely sure what was disliked about Edinburgh. It was mainly a shrugged shoulders “I don’t know, just not really a fan” kind of response.

Glad to hear positives for Durham and York. Sounds like both DC have down really well and I’m glad they’ve enjoyed their courses.
The colleges were one of the things that were really liked, at both Durham and York.
Really happy to hear Durham are good with supporting students as well.

I see, sorry, probably the way I read it I’d keep Durham on the short shortlist in that case. One thing he might find is that Durham has rather a….. laid back approach to contacting prospective students. York was more proactive iirc, asking him if he was still considering them, sending badges and logo-ed water bottles etc. I know freebies aren’t important in the grand scheme of things but it did make York seem more friendly and approachable at the application stage. No problems at all once Durham college allocation etc sorted out and very friendly and welcoming once you’re in.

Are they all similar in grade requirements? He’s got a list of great universities there but he should include one with slightly lower requirements as an insurance choice too, just in case

There is some variation in grade requirements but generally they are all towards the top end.

Standard offers range from A*AA to ABB and contextual ranges from AAA to ACC/BCC.

Standard offer
Durham A*AA
St Andrews / Edinburgh AAA
Glasgow / York / Loughborough AAB
Liverpool ABB

The contextual are a bit strange. St A and Glasgow don’t seem to do contextual offers for the course. Durham, Edinburgh and Loughborough drop by 2 grades and then you have York at ACC and Liverpool BCC which are big drop from their standard. I know there’s eligibility for a contextual offer but we can’t bank on it. I think there’s enough wiggle room in the 5 that would be put on the application.

Thinking about what I just said. If the three favoured courses were included (Durham, St A and Edinburgh) then really all that needs doing is to pick the insurance offers, so more effort needs put into getting that right, as I’m aware that (from what I read on other posts on here) the 3 favourites may or may not offer and there might not even be a choice between them at the end of the day. (And if there is then we are in a very good position). This is also assuming the course at Edinburgh outweighs the slight dislike of the city.

Happy for my logic to be corrected as aware that could be totally incorrect.

Don’t want to add anymore to the confusion but DD liked the chemical physics course at Bristol. The labs were very impressive. She went for physical natural sciences in the end but Bristol was her insurance.

I would say list the three top faves and be aware that he may not get offers from all. But he probably will. Also anecdotally Edinburgh I think and definitely St A are often late with offers.

With his amazing GCSEs and three A-star A level PGs I cannot imagine he needs two insurances as such. Personally I would ditch Liverpool from that list as a student of his calibre would be best IMHO working with peers at a similar level – and Liverpool, while RG, is known certainly of late for massive drops in accepted grades. He needs to be working with peers who like him, gained AAA-A-star x3 rather than candidates with (perfectly good) grades of BBB.

So does he desperately want to be at uni in Scotland? Or might he actually not want to be? If Scotland is not a priority, and it's just course that has drawn him to three Scottish unis, then I would suggest York and Loughborough rather than Glasgow. I mean I would say L/boro haha (my DS is there and looks unlikely ever to leave – not unusual for Luffers students IME). But all his choices are excellent in general (caveat: I have no specific knowledge of chem or physics).

Glasgow and StA offer a three year degree in chemical physics via advanced entry. This makes sense for OP's son as he seems like he knows what he wants to study.

Bristol was considered. The course content seemed really good and we had a look at some virtual tours and you tube. It is a fantastic university with fantastic facilities (on the screen at least). There was a bit of uncertainty about it because of the distance (7 hours in the car, 7+ on public transport - true timings, not Google maps). I offered to do all the driving to go to an open day and go and see the place but in the end this was turned down. It’s just too far away. In the end, and I quote, we got the specification: “I want to be able to leave there at dinner time, get on a train or a bus and be home in good time for my tea. If it’s more than that it’s way too far” (with dinner being the meal about 12-1pm and tea being about 6pm). That told us that ideally it needed to be within 4-4.5 hours away. Which was actually a really helpful break through for narrowing things down a bit.

THB I’m surprised Loughborough made the short list and York is pushing it a bit. Everything is within 4 hours in the car or on public transport (assuming a good run/they’re not on strike that day). York is under 4.5 hours on the trains and Loughborough is just shy of 5.5 hours (or 5 if we do a pick up/drop off at the train station at our end) which is why it surprised me. I suppose that’s telling us something.

@clary So does he desperately want to be at uni in Scotland?

I don’t think there is a higher draw to Scotland, I think it was just the courses. There is a draw to be within half a days (4-4.5 hours) travelling distance of home though - Loughborough being the exception.

It’s really nice to hear your DS is enjoying Loughborough. It did seem a really great place to be when we went. The new STEM labs are absolutely fantastic. The whole place seems to have a really good vibe about it. I can understand why people don’t want to leave.

Thank for your insight on Liverpool. Out of interest, why would you not suggest Glasgow? Is there a key reason? Or is it just based on what I said above?

haha posts passim as Private Eye says from me about Loughborough (DS is technically in his fifth year there now! long story) – yes the facilities are great, and there are excellent sports opportunities too (tho tbf if he is into a popular sport he won't get picked for the BUCS team unless he is excellent – but lots of chances to play for fun or at a lower level).

The Liverpool intel btw is based on posts on MN and a few YP I know who got in on lower grades than you might expect from an RG uni – this year and in previous years. I do think it's helpful if peers are at your level-ish (whatever that might be obvs – DD was relieved in the end she didn't get into high-flying Warwick and was able to really shine at Leicester).

The Glasgow comment was just based on the fact that he preferred two other Scottish unis and unless he very much wants to be in Scotland, I would rate the other options a bit higher in general terms. Nothing wrong with Glasgow tho for sure and it does sound as tho you are in that area-ish so that's certainly a consideration.

Have another look at Glasgow. We've recent positive experience in the extended family of chemistry and physics separately there. Or what about Strathclyde (used to have good links with industry in my day).

My youngest initially went in with only 3 choices and was a bit surprised to get offer in November from 2nd favourite who are known to be late so never bothered with other choices. Your DS could decide later on last two.

Great to hear positives for Glasgow STEM subjects. Strathclyde was another that was considered - chemistry and chemical engineering (I think) - was on the list for quite a while. But there was a preference towards the pure subjects of chemistry and physics rather than applied so it got dropped.

Good point made about applying then making final decisions later. Something to think about.

@clary Apologies if you haven’t got a clue, this is a bit of a shot in the dark “quick question” I’m happy to tell my child to direct it towards Loughborough.

Do you know whether Loughborough are flexible with module switches? The whole of the Loughborough course and modules are fine except one module in the 3rd year. It’s an optional module and neither of the listed options in the programme spec appeal. There is a chemistry with computing degree (which pretty much has most of the same modules and both are accredited by RSC) but one of their modules from the same year and semester does appeal. Do Loughborough allow a swap of module like this?

I know there’s a similar situation with York and one of their optional modules but it clearly states on their website that this module can be swapped with an elective from pretty much any department and, on looking, there are lots of elective modules that appeal.

Seconding the idea of taking another look at Glasgow. My ds preferred Edinburgh until visiting the university, changed his mind and ended up at Glasgow for a STEM subject.
The universities on the list are quite different in feel. Your ds may want to decide on place too, collegiate, city, town etc. Glasgow is a great place for students by the way.

oooh sorry @ChocolateFrog5 I don’t know I’m afraid. So a swap from a module on one course to one on another in effect? I would ask the uni tbh for certainty. It's worth asking- but do bear in mind that modules change and it might not be best to base the uni choice on that.

DD was very keen on a specific module for her third year (Eng lit) but in the end it didn't run and she was not happy. Luckily her PT had a great idea for a way round it. But anyway a module in the third year of a course – so in four years’ time – especially if it relies on the expertise of a staff member (tho this is perhaps more of an Eng lit thing) – is a bit of a long way away as it were.

Actually since your DS is not a fan of Edinburgh this is a good shout @ChocolateFrog5 – he may like the different vibe?

DC1 did a masters in Chemistry and focused on the area that overlaps with physics. Went to Imperial College - with those grades, your DC should get in there. Do they not want to consider Imperial? It is an absolutely fantastic place, absolutely full of opportunities and money. DC1 took part in a student exchange one summer and went to work witb a research group at the University of Toronto and Imperial gave DC1 enough cash to cover flight and their other costs. They also had numerous well-paid temporary jobs within Imperial and also a bursary, which all Uk students receive if their household income is under £70k.

DC1 graduated last year and now works as a physicist! Thinking about doing a PhD in the next few years.