MFL degree if doesn't like essays?

[PrincessOfPreschool]

DS was broadly talented at GCSE but only really enjoyed Maths and Spanish, mostly Spanish. He's now doing 4 A levels - Maths, Spanish, Geog and Chemistry. He's really disliking Geography and says it's the essay element. To be honest, he's not great at expressing himself in writing and doesn't read. He's enjoying maths and Spanish as expected but he's surprised he's also enjoying chemistry as it really was a 'wildcard'.

He was thinking of Spanish at Uni and really wanted to study in Spain for a year, but I'm a bit concerned there's a lot of essay writing by degree level, just in another language.

What else could he do at Uni? He thought maybe Linguistics but we don't know enough about it (will look into it more). What else? He's keen on Oxbridge but I think something he will really enjoy studying is more important.

Japanese at Sheffield was the MFL degree, I was talking about in my earlier post - plenty of essays!

Engineering is the classic problem solver's degree. But without FM, he will struggle in the first year.

How about Chinese? It's a logical written language, and a 'slangy' spoken language which makes it linguistically and socially interesting to learn. Plus the fact that you need to learn at least three thousand characters before you are fluent means that there is less essay type work as you just need to grind learning them all - but has the benefit of a year in Taiwan or China.

Chinese is a great idea but since you can do A level and GCSE in many schools, do unis offer it from scratch? The business with year abroad in Spain is a really good idea too. I can see him enjoying that.

The Oxbridge thing is from his school. They seem to be obsessed with it (which is passed on to the kids), and make all students apply to Oxbridge 'unless they have a good reason'. It is a competitive state sixth form (which I'm not 100% sure of but he couldn't do Spanish or any other language A level in his other school). He definitely needs to research uni courses and content, but he's just been getting used to new school, a long commute as opposed to 5 min walk, studying 4 A levels, zero free lessons due to the way school is structured etc etc. So I will give him a break if he's not researched much into specific courses yet.

OP - yes, DD did Mandarin (and Korean) from scratch at Sheffield.

It might be feasible to do a science degree with some language modules included. There were definitely scientists in my first year french modules at Durham - and that way he could just take the language/speaking/grammar modules and avoid the essay ones.

DD did German and Linguistics at Oxford recently. Linguistics was my suggestion as she was worried about doing an entirely Literature based course - though of course it still involved lots of literature. Fortunately she was more keen on literature by the time she started it. The combination made for a nice mix as linguistics is quite diverse; some of it is very science/psychology based, some more sociology.

Both the German and Linguistics elements were very essay-based. That might be somewhat less so at other universities. At other universities you might also spend more time actually learning the language rather than studying the literature. DD didn't think her language skills actually improved that much during the degree (other than during her year abroad) as very little is explicitly taught.

@PrincessOfPreschoolyou can do German an initio at uni now, somewhat to my consternation. Speaking as a lifelong Germanist.

Mandarin is taught in some schools but perhaps not as many as German. Google suggest 2400 German A levels vs 1600 in Chinese in 2024.

I was going to say I wonder if he would like linguistics, but would worry about the essay writing. But maybe it would feel like a different kind of writing.

I think you have to dig down a bit to see what it is he finds difficult about writing.

Then I'd really urge him to consider linguistics and maths.

Anyone taking a science degree as a way to avoid essay writing is going to be sorely disappointed.

I think this is more a case of the DC needing to develop a little more maturity and realizing what skills are required to succeed at any relevant degree, rather than trying to reduce degree subjects to suit personal preferences for writing or not writing essays. This whole thing seems just really indulgent, actually.

Thanks for your support. I'm not sure how you're supposed to know what skills are required, especially when you're 16. Most courses will just say 'entry requirements'. I don't have an MFL degree (or know anyone with one) so I wasn't sure and in fact assumed it would be like 'further A level' and not so much literature. It's been great to be educated. My degree was basically the same as my A level, just more content and greater depth but the skills were the same (History).

I agree DC needs to mature but he's 16 and doesn't really know what he wants to do. DD is the same age and is very clear. We're all different. This thread has been invaluable and I'm extremely grateful for all the help, which is helping us to think differently and pursue different options. Thanks so much everyone!

How about business and computing together. So, not computer science but business and information system sor something like that. It could be less essay focussed, offer variety and some employability skills. Some universities allow you to study a language as an extra add on.

Or, if he likes leaning new things and gets bored, perhaps a liberal arts degree. It will involve writing essays though...

What is it he doesn't like about writing essays? Id try to get to the bottom of that first.

I think you know quite well that I was not "offering support" - I was offering a basic truth. Sometimes we can all go down rabbit holes we think are worth going down only to discover we've gone the wrong way.

@PrincessOfPreschool Universities publish course content and he can look at core modules and how the modules and options are marked.

At Oxford many MFL students won’t just take Spanish. He needs to find another subject and they list combinations. It’s literature and essay heavy so school is being a bit daft.

My other suggestion is Management at somewhere like Bath with Spanish. It’s a narrow version of Spanish, but agree with others, there’s essays involved. So running away from essays leads to science.

There is little chance of most Engineering degrees without physics. However chemical engineering is possible and Spanish can be taken as well with a view to a year abroad studying in Spanish. Bath might facilitate this but I’m not sure.

Essentially, 16/17 year olds have to be told what a degree entails. A good MFL degree is not just about speaking the language. It’s about using it and studying culture via literature and other mediums. Communicating what you want to say is done via essays and possibly seminars. This prepares dc for work because it obviously involves research too. I think a gentle prodding into the reality of essays or switch to stem. Even then, writing reports matters!

running away from essays leads to science

Science degrees have plenty of essays. In addition to lab reports. And the final dissertation.

Degrees have essays. They just do. Some will have a lower proportion, but you are not going find one that's essay free.

Thanks all. I did mention up thread that it's not 'no essays' but I think he would be more successful if it were just not 'majority of essays'.

I also must add, he thinks that if it's 'the right subject' then 'essays will be alright'. He's not the one thinking this but I think it's not his natural talent (and he has many talents) plus he's currently drawn to subjects with less essay content - so therefore I was questioning the MFL route. This was about me thinking things through for his future, as he's just focusing on getting used to a new school, commuting and A levels! He really disliked English GCSE (he managed to do well but it's the subject he worked hardest for) and is now disliking Geography A level, which is partly the content, partly the teaching, partly the essays. He doesn't read for pleasure, which doesn't help his writing. He's not going to suddenly enjoy reading novels just because they are in Spanish though possibly an essay on Spanish politics or culture may be more interesting. It will still take work to learn how to write well, as opposed to those coming from an essay-based A level background.

@NoBinturongsHereMate Most science degrees won’t have the essay content of MFL at Oxbridge. They just don’t. Reports aren’t the same. DH did engineering and barely knew what an essay was!

@PrincessOfPreschool The problem he faces with MFL, is that most of the highest rated universities will require reading and it won’t be easy novels. They will be challenging. He does need to understand why this is. When grads want work post degree, there’s certain skills they have gained from a degree that matter for challenging work. Reading, digesting, discussing and dissecting literature is part of MFL degrees at the highest level for this reason. It’s not just about picking and choosing the bits you like. A MFL core usually requires literature. It’s these skills as well as language acquisition that make dc employable. MFL grads can go on to do law and other professional roles. Not reading or not liking essays limits employment. There will be grads who excel at it all.

@PrincessOfPreschool I would encourage him to start reading something, it doesn't have to be novels, it doesn't even have to be fiction, there's a whole world of non-fiction books out there which probably tie in with some of his interests. I can't stress enough how important it is to read, whatever you're going to go into later in life.

Philosophy can involve a lot of maths so he may very well enjoy it

My DS is exactly the same and is now reading Modern Languages. He liked the Applied Languages course at Portsmouth as it is ‘applied’ languages. Also look at languages WITH translation/interpreting degrees - coz you do the translation/interpreting part when everyone else is doing culture modules! Take a look at Swansea and Cardiff. He hasn’t written a single essay so far (is in 2nd year) and will be swerving the dissertation by doing a teaching module instead (even though he does not want to teach!). Pick two/three languages not one as those doing single languages are bogged down with culture modules (essay writing). DS is doing Spanish and French but has done some beginners Italian too - again picking this module allowed him to swerve essays as was all about learning the language. It is doable at certain unis if you pick modules carefully.

@Londonbridge21 - wow, that sounds like a fab MFL degree!

@Londonbridge21
That sounds amazing! Thanks for the tip. Lots more research required.

No problems OP. Liverpool is good for avoiding literature (you can do three languages - the more languages you do, the less culture), as is Newcastle. Birmingham and Sheffield worth a look too. And Bath if your DS (who is good at Maths, unlike mine) wants a joint Business/Spanish degree. Bath is amazing for placements - really helps for grad jobs. DS liked Nottingham’s course - the one which is 2/3 languages and 1/3 business. If pure MFL, avoid literature-heavy courses - so rule out Oxbridge, Bristol, Durham. Your DS is clearly very bright (mine just got AAB but was, rightly, pleased with that) so Newcastle is crème de la crème for non-lit heavy MFL. DS got an offer but declined as he knew it is full of brilliant linguists who gave Oxbridge a miss because of the heavy literature element. Really highly rated. All best to him!

I missed off Exeter - you can do three languages there from the get-go if you get AAA