Industrial placement Year

[quintessentially166]

When DS applied to Uni the idea of a placement year sounded a good option, however, naively I thought the Uni had a list of placements and you picked an option, have a basic interview to check you were right fit…but no, it is literally like applying for a full time job, having to source the placement yourself and with up to 4 rounds of interviews and that is only if you get passed just submitting your CV.

What is your DS/DD experiences of trying to get a placement like? Did they manage to find something or did they just have to go on and complete their final year without a placement year?

Of course universities are responsible if they offer degrees that employers don’t want but imply to potential students that they do.

@CatchingtheCat My point exactly, @Chemenger is honest saying 90%. Every university could do this for each course and look closely at courses where it’s say, 50%. Most students don’t seem to understand it’s competitive or DIY so thst needs to be clear in the course info. Mostly it’s boasting about links which don’t lead to enough placements. The students deserve clarification.

Reminds me of an open day my DC and I went on where every person we saw related to the course boasted about a single individual’s exciting placement a few years earlier. It became a running joke for us through the day. We suspected that person had some outside connections which enabled him/her to set up the placement. The first mention we felt ‘wow! That sounds great!’. By the fourth mention we were thinking ‘don’t they get anyone else on placement?’

Does seem to vary a lot. DD got very little help at hers. In the end she found an NHS placement all on her own, which at least gave her a clear idea of what she didn't want to do as a career!

Her best friend got a great placement (from Bath), and has worked for the well-known international company she did her placement with since she graduated (4 years ago).

I have to say, it's only from being on Mumsnet for several years that I know just how much work is involved in securing a placement, and how many students are unsuccessful (having spent a year applying for 100s of positions) and are then left to scramble to find sub-optimal uni accommodation.

All the universities we've been to on open day, whilst making it clear that it's down to the student as to 'whether they are successful or not' do not present the reality, and if I didn't know any different, I would have assumed that the students interested in placement are matched by the university to willing employers!

Hmm, I found unis fairly clear at open days last year about placements - but I suppose we knew enough to ask questions!

@SheilaFentiman Did they say how many were successful though. It does seem many applying for these degrees do assume there are very few unsuccessful students. At some universities there isn’t much help and possibly lowish levels of success. It seems reasonable that universities say what the success rate looks for, say, 3 years. If a student finds their own, the university might have advised about applying but has not had much else to do.

On an open day, it depends what you go to. So if it is for physics, say, it will mostly be covering the course content and different options etc. There wouldn't be a separate talk for 'x with a year in industry'. The careers service are usually buzzing about with a stall or giving their own talks. Any or all of these might have the stats to hand for a given course but would probably do it as a response to a question.

I used to put the data about the number of students on placement vs the number staying with us to do projects in house on a slide on visiting applicants days. It’s a reasonable question to ask, without a doubt. We also always had students available to chat with who could talk about the process of getting a placement. One of our sister engineering departments genuinely had 100% of their masters students on placement every year until a couple of years ago.

I used to rather naively think those courses had links with local industry who accepted a number of students placed with them each year. I don’t think I even really thought about whether that company might want input into picking the students placed with them. Though historically that might have been close to what happened in polytechnics, where courses were developed specifically to meet the needs of that industry. Very much a partnership. Such courses were also much less common (and I am not sure if the placement were even always paid).

Now there are so many courses with a year ‘out’ and there aren’t those close local ties quite so much any more - that was more of a feature of polytechnics.

@Chemenger MEng and 100% until a couple of years ago. You can see the issue. It’s not 100% now and many of the courses will be BEng. The older universities didn’t offer a year out at all back the day and it was the polys that worked on the courses with employers. Almost like an apprenticeship scheme. Then everyone thinks it’s a good idea and placements begin to dry up. Parents and students are not fully aware of this or that some universities don’t say what the chances are of getting a placement. People should see the details in the course structure for year 3. Also the number of applications dc have to make and how long it takes. This is all relevant info and of course MN students go to umpteen open days. Many students cannot afford this and rely on the details given on line. The information should be available and not just for those with deeper pockets who can attend a talk.

DS went through the Industrial Placement (IP) application process last year:

1. University - Exeter - had a mandatory module in year 1 for all IP candidates covering soft skills aspects - CVs, interviews etc etc

1. Searching for and applying for positions was down to the individual. Son relied upon BrightNetwork, RatemyPlacement and some some site that Bristol University post placements on (can't remember name).

He applied for about 20 - starting early September and was offered 2 in February.

Its a very onerous processs for them - typical steps he went through:

1. Online application forms + covering letter
2. Online aptitude tests
3. Video interview - not with a person. You get presented with a question, have X minutes to plan and then Y minutes to answer
4. Group exercise - Online or in person
5. In person interviews/assessment centre.

receiving rejections at various stages.

Glassdoor is a great resource if you get beyond step 2 - lots of previous candidates have graciously posted the format, questions etc they were asked.

Worst experience was with Grant Thornton - he got through to the 6th and final round, had train ticket booked for London and then got an automated email 2 days beforehand effectively saying: interview cancelled, role has been offered to someone else.

It's a brutal process, but a good wake up call as to what they'll need to go through to gain graduate employment

This is exactly my dd's experience as well.

DD just graduated from Bath doing Politics and IR, initially she applied for the 4 year course. Two years in and she decided she didn't want to do the placement year, I was a bit miffed and worried she would struggle to get a graduate job given the competition. Luckily she got the internship of her dreams (media relations with the focus of political lobbying) based in Central London, just been offered a permanent role. She had done a fair amount of volunteering round political issues and also had some articles published in a newspaper, both these really helped. I would still encourage a placement year but for DD it didn't make a jot of difference.

Glad you posted this. DD wants to do a placement this year. She’s doing maths. She’s definitely started applying. I was kind of hoping there would be something suitable at the local site of the multinational where DS works but there wasn’t anything local that was relevant, they were all in other parts of the country.
DDs friend is on a different course at a different uni in same city and already has an (unpaid) placement, but it comes with free accommodation. That was very much not an interview process. She just emailed to ask about it after visiting the place and they said “would you like us to put you on the list?” DD was not impressed it was that easy. I wonder if there are other places that DONT interview?

@ButterPiesAreGreat I personally know 5 fairly recent maths graduates. Not one sought or wanted a placement year. They were secure enough in their abilities to believe they could succeed after graduation. One had a struggle - a 2:2 from Cambridge does give some hurdles to overcome. However no one else I know, Cambridge (2), Warwick (1), Exeter (1) had any problems without a placement year.

Thanks. It won’t be the end if she doesn’t get one but she’d like to. Might be easier for us all financially if she does!

Really hope you're not implying that those who opt for a placement year aren't secure in their abilities?

Another vote for Bath.

the process is pretty brutal (35 applications 2 offers) but there was a dedicated team who helped with CV, interview technique and general advice.

would have been easy to switch to the non placement course but v few of them did.

its a great wake up call as a process and a year in the real world is a massive plus.

@cyclingmum67 Why assume I meant that? The year out seems to be favoured by some but the very best grads often don’t have it so it’s not a deal breaker. There’s so many who think a year in industry reaps additional rewards, but I’m saying for maths that isn’t really the case. There are also other ways of getting work experience. Neither does it benefit some engineers either if it means BEng and not MEng. A good maths grad is employable without a placement year. Do one if it matters to you but maths grads should not worry if they cannot. Dont spend the time snd effort required during y2 of the degree if it compromises the degree. Maths grads are employable.

Again, at Bath. There is help, but you are essentially applying for a job in the ‘open market’ albeit only against other potential placement students, but with the popularity of these courses it’s not easy. DS applied for around 20 with 2 offers and he got really good placement quite late in the year, around April. Not all on the course were successful, some had to take unpaid placements, and some decided to forgo the placement and go straight to final year.

What they need to understand is that a great deal of yr 2 can be taken up applying for your yr 3 placement, and with exams in May it can be very stressful.

Yes. Definitely time consuming and stressful.

Lots of v bright successful kids all applying for the same roles. Pretty brutal.

Money found his placement by advertising himself on linked in. I appreciate he was incredibly lucky in that he had one interview and got the job and was offered a grad job at the end. He was also lucky he could live at home for the year. That aside I can’t stress enough how worthwhile it is to have a placement under their belts if they can get one. It really does put them a step ahead of the other grads.

@Tagliateriroa Well only of you want thst company! If you have given up MEng for BEng, your whole early career could be very different. The advice to do a placement year must be seen in context of a career, not just getting the first job that comes along without evaluating everything else.

think the placement jobs quite often lead to a grad job offer unless you mess up - after all you've already been through the recruitment process plus a year's trial? ds definitely minded to say yes if that happens and they then hold the job for another 2 years until he finishes his MEng...