MFL plus something else

[MFLmum123]

DS in yr12 is starting to think about uni. He is a high achiever (all 9s and 8s) and loves German. He's also doing History, Maths and FM and likely to get v good grades but of course it's early doors yet.

I know lots of places are dropping MFL due to lack of demand (which is depressing for me as I'm a Spanish teacher). Does anyone have any advice on which ones still have a good reputation and/or have a good choice of joint honours? He's thinking about combining it with something else - Law? Economics? Maths?? Probably not wanting to start another language ab initio and not wanting to go to uni in London.

Danke schon ;)

Arabic and Politics

Oh yes you’re right! oh heck

International management and MFL at Uni of Bath? From what I understand it has economics elements. DD is in second year at UoB studying international politics and spanish and she loves it

Thank you all! So heartened to see the MFL love on this thread. I'll get him to have a look at all of these options - and it's very useful to hear the not-so-great reports too, thank you.

DS applied for Economics with German (with German A level) - Leeds, Birmingham, Nottingham, Warwick and Reading. All required similar grades (AAA) except Warwick (AAB) and Reading (BBB). He selected Leeds because of the range of 2nd and 4th year modules available.

If he is interested in an Oxbridge application, Oxford do modern languages with linguistics, or philosophy, or English, or history, or Classics. (Cambridge only offer them as a joint degree with history).

My DD is hoping to do MFL plus something else and she was really impressed with Sheffield at the open day. Lots of students doing joint degrees and the languages department was so engaging and friendly. A good selection of languages on offer too.

@MFLmum123 - completely agree that it’s great to see the MFL love.

My degree (eons ago) was MFL. I subsequently became a lawyer (not planned but came from taking an admin role using one of my languages at a law firm). I have used one of my languages for work a lot over the years. A number of my colleagues did MFL or humanities + 1 MFL degrees. One of my most senior colleagues did a straight humanities degree at Oxford but has said a few times that he would combine it with an MFL if he had his time again. Yay to MFL!

Sheffield had a fantastic German department but I understand it is being significantly chopped, sadly

Please could you clarify further?

@MFLmum123 your son has great grades so I’d encourage him to look at Oxford. The range of joint honours at Oxford with MFL has been mentioned - they also do Law with German. My DD is doing two languages at Oxford - loving the course. One language is ab initio.

Entrance to the Law with German is though massively more competitive compared to two languages as you are in effect applying for a law degree. I understand he is concerned about employability but most MFL graduates at Oxford do get great jobs. DD is hoping to go onto the Bar.

I studied MFL (including a language ab initio) and agree with looking carefully at the course content, particularly in later years.

In my experience, to excel in languages where you are not a native speaker, you need to find opportunities to fully immerse yourself.

Combining a language with another subject is a fantastic learning opportunity, but it can be more challenging in the later stages of the degree, where other full-time languages students have had more opportunity to develop their language skills.

This is an interesting point. Although I think doing joint honours would be more valuable generally, if he was wanting just to focus on German, would it be worth applying for single honours German at Oxford given the extra doors the prestige of an Oxbridge degree can open?🤔 Obviously the most important thing is he goes somewhere/studies a subject he feels he would enjoy but it's something interesting to discuss.

I agree - I think it applies to joint honours MFL as well though. I also did 2 MFL with one ab initio and it would definitely have been easier to focus on one language. I think we often judge how well a student has done in their language degree by how fluent they are, forgetting the other skills they gain from an MFL degree by studying literature, history, politics, linguistics etc. And now I'm just enjoying a good old chat about the merits of MFL :)

@MFLmum123 This is a tough question re impact of reputation of a particular Uni on future prospects. Bright people go onto great careers from a wide range of Universities so I'd only recommend your DS applying to Oxford if they want to do the German course there. There are a huge number of modules at Oxford so I doubt they'd be bored. But you also need drive and ambition and some Oxford students are great academics but not struggle to get jobs in the real world...

So it all depends each DC's preferences and future plans. Worth going to open days etc. For DD the Bar remains a profession heavily biased to Oxbridge and also the particular teaching style of weekly tutorials at Oxford and Cambridge is an excellent grounding for the Bar where you need to recall, analyse then forget large amounts of information repeatedly. So my DD, who couldn't decide between another uni she loved and Oxford, was advised to accept Oxford to get that training - she's had a super time - lots of contact hours but also plenty of time for sport, socialising etc.

As to language fluency @IlFestivaldelGelato makes an excellent point. Getting fluent should be a key goal but this doesn't happen except through immersion. My DD spent a year in France before going to Uni and passed her C1 with top marks before starting Uni. She has today left to Italy for her year abroad (3rd year) so will have a full year there as her French is already up to scratch.

The thing is, though, the Oxford course is not Law with German, it is Law with German Law. In other words, it isn’t an MFL degree, it is a Law degree where you also get to study the law of another country (in that country). The courses you take during your time in Oxford are the same as the regular law students, other than some classes preparing you for a year abroad.

That is completely different from the other “X and modern languages” degrees where you are taking papers from the MFL curriculum.

If what he is passionate about is German language and literature and culture, he wouldn’t get that from the law with law studies in Europe degree.

@foxglovetree exactly - that's why it's so hard to get into - and I believe harder than a regular Law degree as you have added German law

No, I don't think he'd want to do law with German law. If he were to think about Oxford, it would be just to do German.

@MFLmum123 DD1 did 2 MFLs (joint honours back then) and everyone said do 2. One is too one dimensional and three is spreading too thinly. Even back then MFL departments were closing or reducing. She could not take the MFLs she wanted at Sheffield for example. 2 MFLs or joint honours is more challenging DD was told.

Bristol and Durham have vibrant MFL departments and I would definitely see if Economics/History and German are available. Warwick too. Bath might well have management with German but their MFL options are narrow. DD had a broad choice at Bristol (wasn’t German) and she did study all the breadth you mention plus medieval French.

DD is now a barrister. Lots of barristers have done History. A barrister friend of hers in Chambers has History and French. DS could check out Law degrees but do look at content. As mentioned it could be German law.

DD loved study abroad when she went to 2 countries and studied at two universities. Again it’s a great learning experience. Jobs are not just about academics and I would make sure there is a year abroad or it’s very MFL lite.

DD has never used her MFLs at work. I think she’s had a French client once! It’s a door opening degree if it’s academic. Don’t just do it as an add on with no academics abroad.

To be a barrister, you have 3 years of training post grad if you are non law. Taking a year out before a 4 year degree makes this a very long virtually unpaid training process (except for pupilage year). DDs was long enough at 7 years.

I looked at Lancaster though and they seem, even since last year, to have trimmed back their languages degrees. The maths and German joint degree Clary mentions only shows for 2025 entry, not 2026.

Yes, Lancaster isn't offering the Humanity + Spanish degree in 2026 that my DD starts next week. I am so glad that she got in just in time. I remember looking at the Uni website around the time of clearing to compare the grades needed and was surprised to see just how many weren't available for next year. However, Lancaster did offer a heck of a lot of combinations, timetabling must have been a nightmare so I'm not really surprised that they've cut back especially with all the redundancies.

I went to St Andrews (albeit many moons ago) to study English and French, because of the “3 subjects for your junior honours years” system I picked up Italian from scratch to see if I liked it, and ended up dropping English and taking both languages. It was a glorious degree! Although sadly not one I’d choose now with job prospects I mind.

@MFLmum123 - can your son do a single honours language degree at Oxford?

Like you, i did 2 x MFL at uni (in my case, eons ago) including one ab initio (Russian) and that is the language i have used in my job as a lawyer. I don’t speak it perfectly but well enough to work in it, even decades later. I agree with @TizerorFizz that one language is too thin for a whole degree and i do think it would represent a bit of a wasted opportunity, especially since your son is clearly very academically able.

Most unis give free language lessons and use of language lab, he could easily continue to learn German while studying something else

@Unexpectedlysinglemum That isn’t much help if you want a joint degree and need the broad curriculum a MFL degree offers when taken as an academic subject. It’s the difference between dabbling a bit and studying academically.