Oxbridge advice

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Hi all,
My daughter is in Y9 in a good private secondary school and I was wondering if anyone had any advice on extra curricular activities, number of gcse or other that she should be starting to look out for this year. My husband and I are both foreigner and have no clues where to start, what would help and what requirements are. She is interested mostly in humanities (english, histories, theology) and is taking about maybe studying law or business or economics but also sometime about sciences and medicine.
Thanks a lot

Be guided by school

extra curricular..,, whatever she fancies

Does she specifically want to go to Oxford (or Cambridge)? They are amazing universities but not for everyone as they have a very specific tutoring system – it's quite high pressure with frank feedback and a lot of essays. Wonderful if that works for you of course. It's early yet tbh to be thinking about a particular university. Is she a very high achiever?

Since she is at school, the number of GCSEs will be set for her by the school anyway – usually between eight and 10. If she is thinking of medicine then she might want to take three separate sciences for GCSE if offered (sometimes called triple science).

Otherwise she should take a range of subjects, including any she may want to take at A level (history, MFL, tech, drama). Her current ideas for uni are wide ranging but that's fine. When she comes to choose A levels in two years' time she will most likely have a better idea if she prefers sciences or humanities. Biology and chemistry A levels are a good idea if med is the target.

For the moment, she should work hard to gain the best grades she can; in terms of outside activities, these are not especially needed for uni applications, but it's a good idea to have an outlet outside school, be that music, football, drama club, athletics, swimming. All the best to her.

Oxbridge is not the be all and end all. There are other excellent courses and unis. Is she a high attainer academically, does she read around her interests, research independently, think beyond what she is taught? What does she enjoy extracurricular wise?

good private secondary school

Yes ask the school, this is something they should be very familiar with

Oxbridge historically don’t really care about extra curriculars unless they show a passion for the subject you are applying for.

I would just encourage her to read widely around the subjects she is interested in, maybe listen to podcasts too.

Do extracurriculars to broaden yourself and for enjoyment, not to look good for Oxbridge. That said, do look as well for things that might relate to possible future study, though if she’s still deciding (very normal at this young age!) it’s more likely to be trying different things to see what she likes. See what school offers - ours did a magistrate court mock trial thing, or are there any maths or science competitions the school enters? Go to museums, galleries, just expose her to things she might be interested in.
My son has just been writing his personal statement, and most of the things he’s including on there are things he’s done in the last year or so. But he’s done better in the maths challenge this year because he did it in previous years etc. If she’s interested perhaps in law, business, economics, have the news on, talk about it with her, interesting podcasts etc. I agree the school may have extracurricular options too.
Number of GCSE’s isn’t an issue. Different schools do different numbers as standard. A few universities look at gcse grades as a small part of the offer criteria, but not all. Doing as well as possible in the ones she’s taking is the best plan!

I would say she is a very high achiever and an avid reader since a very young age. The mandatory GCSE for her school are English litt, English lang, maths (and further maths as she is in the higher set), one MFL (she will have two languages as she is sitting one early this year), 3 sciences. She then has the option of 3 additional GCSE (school advised to take one humanities and 2 other). Her school offers the choice of IB vs A level. Is there a way that is more difficult / easier to apply to those 2 universities? Outside of school, she enjoys hockey (but not at a competitive level), playing guitar, swimming, a lawyer club. She also registered for DofE bronze this year.

Exhausted just reading that

I don’t have direct experience of Cambridge, but Oxford does not care about any extra curricular stuff. Have a look at Matthew William’s videos about Oxford entry, on YouTube, he is very helpful and clear about the whole process. She will need really good grades at GCSE, and excellent predicted grades, plus a true enthusiasm for her chosen subject. Many people with all these things will still get rejected after the interview. They look for a very specific type of person, and obviously have to narrow it down by tiny amounts as there are fewer places than people interviewed.
As pps have said, Oxbridge is a very challenging and intense environment. There are many other excellent universities, depending on what subject she chooses she will have plenty of other options to look at.

She sounds like she does a lot which is great. Is there a reason to focus on Oxford or Cambs? As I and others say, there are lots of other great unis and it’s not a good idea to be too focused on one.

You can apply to Oxford or Cambs btw but not both. I think I am right in saying the majority of applications there are not successful so other options are needed.

She will look at other universities of course and is not set on anywhere! Being from another country, I understnad getting there is is very demanding and I just want to make sure her opportunities will be open when time comes. She might not even apply there in the end. Just want to make sure that if there is something she should be doing now she is aware of it. Heard so many things since getting in the UK about you need to go to this nursey if you want to get into this prep and then this secondary school and then this uni. It is a very competitive country compared to where we come from from a very young age

You choose either to apply to, not both at once, and up to four others. Sounds as if she does plenty. Agree Oxbridge is more about passion for subject than incidentals and interview technique. Not all outside Oxbridge interview though.

A couple of points. Oxbridge don ‘t offer business as it is a less academic subject. something like history or another essay based subject is a good choice at A level for Law, so pick it for GCSE first. Extracurriculars are largely irrelevant unless they relate to the subject the student is planning to study.

Heard so many things since getting in the UK about you need to go to this nursey if you want to get into this prep and then this secondary school and then this uni. It is a very competitive country compared to where we come from from a very young age

Tbh for most of us it is not. The majority of YP in the UK do not go to private school (for lost of reasons, mostly to do with money). So the nursery and private prep thing is not an issue. My kids went to the local primary and secondary and then on to do what they wanted – inc uni in two cases. All good. So please don’t worry – I think it is easy to get caught up in a bubble of competitiveness if that's what's happening around you.

Oxbridge are interested in students who really love their subject and want to really get into it deeply.

Have you thought about WHY you want your DD to go there? Does SHE want to go there?

if she does want to go there then the best way is to allow her the space to find her own academic passion and once she has found it support her to pursue supra curriculum activities in relation to it.

there are many many bright students at great private schools who have been busy with millions of activities since they were 11 that look great on the cv, but if they’ve never had the space and time to find their academic passion then they might not interview so well at oxbridge as the state school kid who has been mad about subject x and not much else for years.

Heard so many things since getting in the UK about you need to go to this nursey if you want to get into this prep and then this secondary school and then this uni.

Oh dear I think you’ve met the insanely pushy parents!! It really isn’t like this.

Oxbridge won't care about specific extracurriculars in terms of padding out the application, but I would recommend debating - it's excellent for honing the type of skills that are needed for an Oxbridge education (especially humanities). Forming arguments, making a case, rebuttal and so on, as well as confidence and public speaking, which will set her right in the interviews.

I did competitive debating against other schools and it really improved my essay writing, as the argument structure is the same, and you need to be concise.

Oxford and Cambridge also run two of the biggest debating competitions, so if you do well you get to go to the universities for the finals, which is a brilliant experience.

Agree with pp though that the main thing they are looking for is passion for the subject, but debating goes hand in hand with law, and is also relevant for politics and history, so it would be useful.

As PP have advised they will not give 2 hoots about DoE or hockey or any of that stuff for Oxbridge applications.
She needs to be absolutely passionate and high achieving about her chosen subject and doing lots of supra curricular on that. That's all Oxbridge really care about!
If she's a bright all rounder and enjoys doing all these other things she may prefer some of the other uni options!

The state sector is nothing like this. You have met the wrong people.

I’m not disagreeing with this poster, more expanding on what’s written, and I only know about Cambridge and not Oxford.

You can’t do a full first degree in business, but you can do Management Studies at the Judge Business School as the final year of a 3 (and sometimes 4) year undergraduate course in something else.

As to Law, the website says (but also see the grey box further down the linked page)

We don't ask for any specific subjects to apply to Law. We recommend these subjects for a strong application:

• English (language or literature)
• History
• Languages (ancient or modern)

I agree with previous posters who say they will be looking for strong enthusiasm and excellent results in the chosen subject.

There is nothing that she needs to be doing in Year 9. Many people don’t even really start thinking about Oxbridge applications until after they have finished GCSEs.

The application process is purely academic. Extra curriculars will make no difference. Of course it’s great for her to pursue extra curriculars for her own personal development and enrichment but they will not be taken into account.

As others have said, what matters is passion for and aptitude for the chosen subject and high academic potential. She doesn’t need to worry about which subject just yet- the GCSE courses will give her a better idea of her strengths and interests.

And there is not a “pathway” you have to get on to get into Oxbridge. People get in from all sorts of routes and backgrounds. There is no choice she can make in Year 9 that will rule her out.

Thanks a lot for all your responses, it is very useful. Does anyone have views on IB vs A level when applying to UK universities? From the leavers destination I have seen in our school it seems that most IB students then go abroad (US, Europe). Is it harder to go to the UK uni with IB?

Having done IB yonks ago I can tell you that the jump up for STEM is pretty hard from IB vs A levels. Humanities less so.

The EU and US uni systems are geared towards their school leaver qualifications which are less specialised than A levels so it's a more comfortable transition.

I believe offers for IB can be tougher to achieve,

But ultimately it may depend on whether the IB or A level curriculum and requirements better suit your DC.

That’s a fair point, and in fact Oxford also has Economics and Management. I just don’t.t see that as Business per se. But either might potentially suit op’s DD.

The important thing at this stage is to not close off options as GCSE, and to work out over the next couple of years what career paths appeal the most.

UK universities will accept IB and A Level and they won't perceive one as less worthy of making an offer to. She should play to her interests and strengths - is she an all-rounder or does she want to get into depth in a smaller number of subjects?

I'm not in STEM so I can't comment on whether IB prepares adequately for those courses where subject knowledge is more important. In Humanities, IB is absolutely fine. For competitive universities, what matters is that she is predicted to meet the offer conditions. If the school offers both pathways, it should be guiding her when it comes to an appropriate point.

But this decision can wait until she is finishing GCSEs. Part of the point of doing a broad range of subjects at GCSE level is precisely to help you work out what you are best at and most passionate about. When I was in Year 9 I was certain I wanted to be a biologist because I loved animals (like many children that age). By the end of GCSEs I realised I was far stronger at Humanities and it would be far more sensible to do A Levels in those subjects. But I needed the experience of studying for longer, and the maturity of a 16 year old rather than a 13 year old to be able to come to that decision.