Do universities look at GCSE results?

[bendmeoverbackwards]

Dd didn’t do brilliantly at GCSE - 666665543

She hasn’t started A level study yet but is worried that even with good A level results, her GCSEs might be a problem. She wants a Russell group (I know, I know…. have tried to persuade her to keep an open mind).

How much do GCSE grades matter?

Your son did amazing!!! Well done to him

This might be of interest: Here is some research by Cambridge Assessment showing correlation from GCSE results to A Level results. Have a look at Table 2 page 12 & 13

www.cambridgeassessment.org.uk/Images/707601-progression-from-gcse-to-a-level-2020-2022.pdf

What were the subjects?

@Goingncforthisone it's not poor advice to suggest a student with 6 in maths or MFL should probably not do A level in those subjects. A very well respected maths teacher on this board regularly posts similar advice and says parents who did not have it, are frustrated at their DCs' poorer A level grades.

Well done to your DC for going from 6s to As at A level. That's unusual tho. Was that in maths? Were there specific circumstances at GCSE? Generic advice (which is all I am.offering) has to be based on general outcomes not specific exceptions.

Dd went from 9 at GCSE to B at A level. But I know there were lots of reasons in her case and would never extrapolate from that to "you can't get higher than a B from GCSE grade 9" obvs. Not saying you are doing that. But I stand by my advice, even though I am glad to see that some students give it the lie.

Yes it was Maths and a science too, 6 for both and As in A level. There were no special circumstances other than he found it very difficult being spread so thinly across that number of subjects.

Appreciate that might not be typical, but I am trying to show that all is not lost if someone loves a subject and is naturally good, a 6 is not necessarily the end for them in that subject.

Maths science and geography. 6s were in Maths and Science, As at A level (almost an A* in the science subject).

While it's fairly common sense that the better you do in GCSE the better you are likely to do in A level it's clear some people confound expectations both ways. And unfortunately the data we have on the new curriculum is affected by Covid and the TAG in 2020 and 2021 which we know were higher than normal. So the data set linked here has (high) TAG for GCSEs and then actual exam grades for A levels. Since these kids did not have the experience of sitting GCSEs and had their first year of A levels impacted by lockdown this data is very much a worst case scenario. The first year of the updated curriculum that did not have GCSEs or A levels impacted by Covid sat their A levels this year so that data is not yet available.

He did really well then and that's fab.

I do agree that it’s possible to improve and excel when you love a subject. I still think the generic suggestion is valid tho. 6 at GCSE maths to an A at A level is very unusual, as the table Noblegiraffe quotes shows. FWIW my DS went from 8 at GCSE to B at A level. :)

Depends on the course and how competitive it is.

For some courses my son is looking at it's a 6 in maths and English, at least one wants 5x6 or above.

Others it's just a 5 or 6 in maths and a 4 in English.

The highest ranking universities seem to want 7's and above but he's not looking at them.

The problem is high ranking universities RG or equvi tend to want AAB-AAA+ and 5-6's at GCSE don't tend to lead to those grades.

Most of the children my son knows who did their A levels this year with mainly 5&6's got mainly C-E.

My son got 5x7 or above at GCSE and will probably put one AAB university at best.

Yes children can go from a 6 to an A but they tend to be the expectation rather than the normal.

@JaninaDuszejko here is a similar analysis for pre Covid results - I appreciate these were before A levels were reformed but may be of interest.

https://www.cambridgeassessment.org.uk/Images/560531-progression-from-gcse-to-a-level-2017.pdf

In summary there was still a strong correlation between GCSE and A level results. Which isn't that surprising! But of course as this thread shows there are aways individuals who confound the data both ways.

Older dd got 8s in her A level subject choices and As at A level.
It was still very hard work for her, and for most subjects, especially STEM, you really do need to be getting 8s and 9s at GCSE to get top grades at A level*

*unless there is a clear and provable reason the grades were not high enough e.g. the whole cohort did badly, Exam board marking mistakes <side eyes AQA>

@bendmeoverbackwards what subjects is she taking for A levels? Did she do any of them for GCSE? ie Ds took a new subject at A level so no previous grade to go off.

Does she know what she might want to study at uni?

Russell Group unis rank anywhere from 1st to 41st according to The Complete University Guide. Would she be open to visiting any other unis for open days? Or will she dig her heels in?

There is a correlation between GCSEs and A levels but obviously there are outliers. You can always approach the college to get them to add extenuating circumstances such as attendance levels on her UCAS.

One of the reasons schools are/have been so keen on Russell Group universities is that one of the progression measures was proportion going to Russell Group Universities. This has now been abandoned so hopefully schools will focus more on students going to the best university and course for them. Quick Google couldn't find the announcement but there was a Guardian article.

I think most people would not be able to list all 24 members of the Russell Group. We've had a few "look how well our students have done" emails from 6th forms and even there Bath is more likely to be mentioned than e.g. Liverpool or Southampton.

I'm just being realistic and not beating around the bush. If the RG uni looks at GCSEs, then OP's DD is in a tough spot. OP's DD needs to look at what went wrong with her GCSEs and then work her socks off. She should aim to get "A" grade predictors. This would improve her chances of going to a RG university. If she continues with B level grades that massively restricts (but not closes off) RG universities.

All of my own children have gone to RG unis. At GCSEs they all got mostly 9s with a couple 8s and maybe a singular 7. A-levels have been at least A*AA.

Getting mostly 6s and then Bs at A-level is average but nothing to shout home about.

In a not disimilar position. I didn’t do great in my GCSEs back in the day, stormed my A levels and was having a year out anyway so applied to Cambridge and got in. If it’s a reall problem and our DC smash A levels, they could apply after. V few would look at high actual A levels grades and be bothered by less good GCSEs. Also I read explain context in personal statement. DC’s comp not done well at all this year, so will suggest he explains.

Some unis specific some GCSEs for some courses, but many don’t. However they must be looking at GCSEs for cimpetetive courses. Interested in what others say…I find the idea GCSEs not a big deal in uni apps hard to believe.

OP edited to say because mumsnet is full of high achievers (many in grammars/ private/ tutoring -nothing against them) you will get a lot of ‘those GCSEs don’t bode well for high A levels. This might be true statistically but it’s not always true, my own experience for example.

Best of luck!!

Getting mostly 6s and then Bs at A-level is average but nothing to shout home about

And this is why we have a mental health crisis among young people. No wonder they feel under pressure to achieve top grades and nothing else will do. Some people work bloody hard to achieve those results. Shame on you @DuggaDoo

Ignore them.
As PP have pointed out, there is a disproportionate number of posters with high achievers on mumsnet.

Good luck to your DD whatever path she chooses.

All of my own children have gone to RG unis. At GCSEs they all got mostly 9s with a couple 8s and maybe a singular 7. A-levels have been at least AAA.*

Well done to your DC @DuggaDoo but you should know that firstly, as noted here, most RG unis do not look at GCSE results beyond a stipulated grade in Eng and maths which is often 4/5, sonetimes 6.

Yes Oxfird, Cambridge, Imperial, LSE may. And as also noted, fir certsin subjects like medicine a high grade average is looked for. But most RG unis don't look at this for most subjects. Great that your dc got mostly 9s and the odd 8. But there are 24 RG unis. There must be 70,000 plus places at RG each year. There certainly are not that many 16yos achieving all 8/9 at GCSE.

@bendmeoverbackwards a good uni is achievable if your dd focuses well on A levels and works hard from the start. All the best to her.

Suspect part of problem is children not really understanding what's needed to get into a high ranking university.

Most of my son's friends laughed that he is looking at universities ranked around 40 even those these children are predicted mainly B's at A level.

5/6 at GCSE are good grades but not really high ranking university potential therefore children should be realistic and look at a range plus realise the effort they need to put in to turn 6's into A's

There are a fair few universities at B/C grade level with good outcomes and I suspect children's mental health will be as much effected by the belief it's only worth it if it RG.

You are not being realistic whatsoever ever and your opinion means jack. Go away from this thread as your pathetic negatively is boring.I along with the majority of posters here do not give a toss what your dc got.

Please do not take that posters comment as in any way fact because it’s not fact. My daughter was offered a place at all her choices for university and they were all bar one being Russell Group (though there are other excellent universities out there to choose from). The one she is going to is in the top 10 in the Complete University Guide. If my daughter can do it so can your DC and so can anyone’s DC.

OP what subject does your DD want to do? This will help narrow down more specifically than just ‘Russell Group’ . Then you could work out which ones (or which other non-RG but still very good) unis she could look at. If she’s more of a BBB kind of girl (she may well do better than that, but going on her GCSE grades let’s assume 3 bs) then this is where she needs to be looking.

Also if she’s looking at subjects like sociology or languages for example, she’s much more likely to be in with a chance, than if it’s Maths or biochemistry or PPE.

Like most of the others have said, 5/6 and Bs are solid grades - certainly not outstanding, but solid enough for a good crack at it. There are a lot of posters on here who seem to forget that 5/6 at GCSE is quite normal - I have one DD who got all 8&9s and one DD who got 4/5/6 so have a good view on both and have looked at all sorts of universities ranging from Cambridge to Plymouth - what I would say from my POV is that our DD2 would be far, far happier in a Plymouth- type setting than a LSE/Warwick kind of place (even if she did by some miracle get all As, which, as said before, with that grade profile is unlikely) The vibe is completely different and she may find she prefers the more relaxed approach and people who feel more like her, than the vibe of somewhere that feels out of her reach. Go to open days and see what she thinks - not just RG but some good non RG like Sussex, Lancaster, Leicester etc

@greasyhairedwoman she doesn’t have a clue about subjects. She is quite immature and is acting like a petulant toddler stamping her feet and insisting she MUST go to a RG uni without any critical thought about the reasons why. Sigh.

Going to university "just because" is completely the wrong reason to go. Students who do this have a higher drop out rate. Also, you only get (usually) up to four years of student finance, and it is pointless going for the sake of it then dropping out because you have wasted a year's worth of finance.

Your daughter would be far better off taking a gap year and working and having time to decide what she really wants to do without the pressure of A levels.

Another option is that if she is struggling with her current A level options she can redo year 12 and start again. There is funding for three years post 16.

University of Bristol definitely look at GCSEs. For History BA, the application criteria is 70% A-level and 30% GCSE. Think that is quite unusual though. Good luck to your DC, she has time to work it all out :)