To Epq or not to Epq…?

[Cornflowerblue5]

Youngest DC is about to start 6th form and is moving schools (state). Has to start with 4 A levels (non stem) but plans to drop one by half term as no interest in 4th option. For context 9x9 and 1x8 at gcse and likely to be aiming for competitive unis (not Oxbridge) but no idea what subject.

New school is unusual I think in not insisting on an EPQ or core maths alongside 3 A levels? Head of 6th form actually said to us that they often find top students do better doing their own supercurriculars for PS rather than investing in time needed for epq because so much it is about the process?

So my question is, would a student with those gcse grades be unwise to ‘only’ apply to uni with 3 A levels (aiming for high grades) . Will they be disadvantaged if they don’t do an epq because so many others offer one?

I do realise that the EPQ has value as preparation for uni if done as a mini dissertation, but I’m not convinced it is worth the time it takes up (DC would also have geography coursework) and I wonder if it is better to invest that time in the core subjects ?

thanks for your advice

Maybe the acid test is, if a student is considering doing an EPQ merely because they feel they ‘should’, then they probably shouldn’t.

(same goes for extracurriculars like DofE)

I think it’s a bit misleading to highlight the EPQ as a discussion topic in interviews. In reality, only some interviews touch on the personal statement at all and if they do it’s more as a “soft question” to relax the candidate at the start of the interview - those are the words of an admissions tutor at Cambridge.

The important point is to have some interesting supercurriculars to write about on your PS and potentially be asked about in interviews, but it doesn’t need to be an EPQ. (I’m not saying your 75% isn’t true, but if your students hadn’t done an EPQ and just read books, they would have been asked about the books in that situation.)

In fact, some places are looking for genuinely independent supercurriculars which have not been done/associated with school!

Thank you again everyone for your perspectives, it's generally very reassuring to know that there won't really be a disadvantage if DC1 chooses not to do an EPQ - as many have stated its maybe best not to do one if you aren't actually motivated by the idea! I can definitely see the benefit of course if a student wants to spend the time pursuing an area of interest and will enjoy the process.

I think it's been concerning me because my eldest did the IB which of course has multiple add-ons incl a mandatory Extended Essay which is similar to an academic EPQ . One of the reasons for DC2 moving schools is not wanting to be overloaded to the same extent.

As @Noonehastheanswer points out, Oxbridge interviews focus on whatever is in the PS as well as essays submitted - my eldest talked about the extended essay in the PS but was actually not asked about it - the focus was on one of the pieces of work submitted alongside other topics in the PS and a load of seemingly random questions! I'm clued up enough now about personal statements to be able to direct younger DC to the idea of independent super curriculars instead. Regardless, DC2 won't be applying to Oxbridge so interviews a moot point.

My son got a Degree Apprenticeship mainly because of his EPQ. Something to do a presentation on, talk about and tons of transferable skills. His A level grades were pretty disastrous in the end.

It’s subjective so hard to answer. If you are an unadulterated cast iron Oxbridge bound brain box you probably don’t need to worry about slipping a grade.

If you are slightly more normal an EPQ can give reassurance of a good grade “in the bag”. Dd had to do a presentation to parents on hers which was good for her public speaking practice. So on balance it was good for her.

Dd2 has a particular interest in an industry she isn’t studying at a level so she will do her epq on that which might be of help for jobs / courses in the future. Neither of mine going to Oxbridge 😀

That's exactly what I was thinking. They may talk about it at interviews but that doesn't mean it counts for much.

From the Oxford uni website:
Do you recognise Extended Projects?
Extended Project Qualifications (EPQs) will not
be a condition of any offer from Oxford but we
do recognise that the EPQ offers valuable
opportunities to develop research and academic
skills relevant for study at Oxford. We encourage
you to refer to relevant EPQ experience when you
write your personal statement.

Yes, I agree with you. I read frequently that "Oxbridge are not interested in EPQ" but this was not our experience at all and it was not only discussed at interview but also formed part of my YP's offer.

As mentioned above, not only was the EPQ discussed at interview, it formed part of my YP's Oxbridge offer alongside A levels. It wasn't used a s just a soft opener at interview.

That's contrary to the quote I copied from the Oxford website.

None of my 4 did EPQ. I don’t really see that there is any point, save for one exception. It is v time consuming, so if you are wirried about grades time would be better spent getting on top of the curriculum and doing practice papers. If you are doing it for a one grade lower offer, then I think almost all the unis that offer that will also take a grade drop from the standard offer on results day.

The exception is medicine applicants. The EPQ helps show interest in the subject and can be a really good thing to talk about in the MMI interviews (not all, but many candidates find they can discuss their EPQ).

Oxbridge colleges are somewhat a law unto themselves!

None of DDs interviews (all 5 of her choices) asked her about her EPQ (or much about her ps at all tbh). One of the Cambridge guys seemed to use it as a guide for what to not ask her about!

But it was still valuable to her as an end in itself.

I'd second this - both my two benefited hugely from their EPQs in applying for universities and it was great on their personal statements.

At their school (state) they are done in Year 12 so you have the result and something concrete to talk about in your PS.

And yes if the unfortunate happens like my DN and you slip a grade (needed AAA, got AstarAB) and miss both your firm and insurance then a good EPQ is most helpful in securing a good clearing offer.

Finally if you are thinking of applying to Uni in Ireland it helps hugely in getting enough points. 3 A level's even at top grades isn't sufficient.

There is a fairly regimented EPQ process but that is helpful in preparing for doing dissertations at Uni where you are often marked on the research process as much as the content.

You are right but perhaps I am not referring to Oxford. I promise you, this was our experience.

DD did in year 12. Honestly I don’t think it was really worth the enormous effort that it took. She also had English and History NEAs so got the experience of doing extended work anyway. It was a huge amount of work and was as PP have said about the process rather than the end result. She got her grades for first choice anyway.

I think this is an interesting section from the Oxford admissions website. It’s in answer to the question of whether to do more than 3 A levels, but it could also be relevant to taking an EPQ in addition to A levels. (My bolding). It’s also consistent with what many admissions tutors from various universities have written on mumsnet on many different threads.

“Offers will normally only be made for three A-levels regardless of how many you are taking, though the offer may specify in which three subjects we want the required grades.
Any additional A-levels that you choose to take will be considered, and can help to demonstrate your ability to handle a large workload. However, we recommend that you think carefully before taking on any additional A-levels as this may reduce the time you have to read around your chosen subject beyond your school or college work. We advise candidates not to spread themselves too thinly across too many subjects, where they may risk dropping a grade or two in their results. Our offers are made on the basis of exam grades rather than UCAS Tariff points, so three Astar/A grades would be sufficient to meet most conditional offers, but two Astars and two Bs would not.

Edited as I messed up the stars!

I would say that an EPQ is useful both for Oxbridge- because its something they can ask about in interview, and for other unis where it can form part of the offer and mitigate against a slipped grade.

My dd did do one , alongside 3 A levels and didn't find it particularly time consuming.

Agree with pp, it should be something the student is interested in for its own sake also.

DD went to Oxford and did an EPQ and a Gold Crest Award (a STEM project). She found both useful for demonstrating an interest in her degree subject and in writing a PS. She didn’t find the EPQ to be much extra work as it was very prescriptive. On the other hand DS went to Cambridge with three A Levels and no EPQ.

@Noonehastheanswer- the stars aren’t you messing up, asterisks are used for mn markup. HE threads are always full of weird bolding! Try using or + instead.

DS did an EPQ. Enjoyed the project but found the process and diary frustrating. DD chose not to bother (at DS’s recommendation).

It made no difference to their offers (both STEM).

With the excellent GCSE grades, I wouldn’t bother.