Are you certain your student DC's rental property has an HMO license?

[waitingrume]

It's worth checking or encouraging them to check, partly because unlicensed HMOs are a safety & welfare hazard, but also because tenants can apply for a Rent Repayment Order if it turns out their property is unlicensed.

Some London councils are swamped with unlicenced HMOs because the landlords know councils don't have resources to take enforcement action. Every council has an HMO license register on their website, so it's easy to check.

I disagree. In recent months Councils have been massively expanding selective and additional licensing regimes. It is like an additional tax. Two and three bed properties which have been let safely for years without this "license".

I am having to pay £1,500 to provide the Council with an EiCR, Gas Safe Cert EPC and floor plan. The first three of which I am required by law to have and to show to tenants. I simply do not understand why the paying of £1,500 reduces any safety & welfare hazard. The simpler solution would be to have all such certs on line, like EPCs are, and councils, insurance companies, letting agencies and others could quickly check to confirm that a property was compliant.

The Council get their money but who pays in the end. The tenant as unnecessary costs are driving landlords out of the market. As well as tenants in poorer quality accomodation where landlords are even more motivated to ignore the process and simply hope they don't get caught. (Enforcement is very rare and Councils have lots of other ways to deal with bad landlords.)

FWIW I applied for a licence in one London borough 18 months ago, paying the money up front. Every so often I go back and ask what is happening and get an email reply saying they are too busy. How much time do you need to check four bits of paper. (Put the complicated ones to one side and work your way through the straightforward compliant ones.) The paperwork I sent in the first place is now out of date (thought obviously I and the tenants have copies of the up to date certificates). How on earth is that reducing my tenants' safety & welfare hazard?

@Needmoresleep , so if you found out your DC was in an unlicensed HMO you wouldn't encourage them to apply for Rent Repayment Order? If there is no license, it's often because the property is not licensable. If it were just a case of getting a few certificates and paying £1500 landlords would do it. In reality, the costs of upgrading a house to the required minimum standard is often much higher.

My DC's first shared rental property was a definite fire hazard.

In many Local Authorities, almost all properties are now HMOs. (Statutory, additional and selective.) Different conditions are attached to each.

All landlords have to have EiCRs, Gas Safe Certs and more. They need heat alarms, smoke alarms, CO2 alarms, fire doors. All sorts of things.

I did not understand your alarmist language. Of course landlords need to comply with legislation and supply tenants with copies of the relevant certs. I simply do not understand what some of the new licensing regimes bring to the party. You have the paperwork. Why pay an additional £1,500 to send copies to the Local Authority. It may not sound much to you. But it is plenty to me, and will be to the student should the landlord choose to pass the cost on.

"I simply do not understand what some of the new licensing regimes bring to the party"

@Needmoresleep That sounds like an issue for another thread. You're compliant. I'm talking about landlords that aren't compliant.

I wasn't being alarmist. The RRO process is a carrot-and-stick solution to the problem of widespread non-compliance and overloaded LA's. It's a carrot for the tenants, and a stick for the landlords. But most people don't know about it so don't realise they can apply to get rent refunded if their landlord doesn't follow the rules.

I am objecting to the naivety.

Who the hell do you think pays for the cost of a licence.

I can't advertise on RightMove without having all the certs. I can't rent through a letting agent without having all the certs. I am required to show the certs to prospective tenants. Why on earth should I pay £1,500 every three years or so to a Council to show them the same.

OK apply for licenses in part to avoid huge fines, a criminal record and the risk of having to repay rent. But I cannot be alone in seeing the extension of National HMO Licensing requirements by Local Authorities as a revenue raising exercise. They know where their problem properties are, and already have the tools to handle issues.

At the moment I have two properties that needs licenses and will soon have a third. All three have all the required certificates and have been rented out for years without problems. You talk about safety. I don't actually have any licenses. I have applied for them, and paid for them, but neither Local Authority has got round to actually processing my applications. I am having to reply on showing tenants my applications and follow ups, hoping this would be sufficient to protect me if I were ever prosecuted for not having them. The letting agency has to take the same approach as if not, they would not have anything at all to let to sharers. Recent case law is on our side. Already there is a noticeable shift where landlords will only rent to families, where HMO licenses are not required. (Funny that - sharers will be adults, families include children yet their "safety" is deemed less important.)

So if your young person complains that rents are high and there is a shortage of property, tell them from me that the cost of over regulation is part of the reason.

@Needmoresleep the issue of over-regulation is widely discussed elsewhere.

You seem to be denying that there is a problem with unregistered HMOs. There are estimated to be thousands in Camden for example: https://news.camden.gov.uk/spotlight-shone-on-6000-unlicensed-homes-in-multiple-occupation/

These unregistered properties are not advertised on RightMove or let out through reputable agencies. They are advertised directly by private landlords. My DC's landlord used OpenRent to advertise and he has two unregistered HMOs let out to students.

As I said, I have two unlicensed HMOs in London. Not for the want of trying.

OR and Rightmove require evidence of certificates not of the HMO license. Certificates are important. In many cases the license is duplication.

Not only have I had to pay £1,500 to get a license from one LA when they added selective and additional licenses, but my insurer tripped the cost of insurance because the property was an HMO. So £3,500 in extra cost, and it is exactly the same property as it was before.

@Needmoresleep your properties would not be considered "unlicensed" for the purposes of a RRO because you have an application in the pipeline. Anyone thinking of applying for a Rent Repayment Order would first need to verify that there wasn't a pending HMO application.

In my DC's case, the local authority wrote to the occupants to tell them their property was unlicensed and directing them to guidance on their website, including guidance on the RRO application process. They don't have resources to prosecute every rogue landlord so make sure that tenants know their rights.

Thank you for the information. Unlicensed HMOs and Airbnb rentals are a huge problem in my town.

... Of course the only reason the LA wrote to my DC's household is because their landlord's license had expired, and no renewal application had been made. If the property had never had a license, the LA wouldn't know about it.

I agree with checks ensuring that landlords are compliant with making rental properties safe.
i have a flat which is one of 3 in a converted house and we all own the freehold. One flat owner doesn’t care about proper management of his rental flat or the freehold and resists anything requiring forking out money.
Fortunately for him the other
owners have ensured that the building is compliant and he has got his additional licence.
I imagine that had he had a house that he rented out he would not be compliant if there were no additional licence scheme.

Reviving this thread to say we had a positive outcome on my DC's RRO application. The landlord settled for the full amount claimed (which was the final 3 months rent for each of the tenants) before it went to court. He was advised to do that by his lawyer, who could presumably see he didn't have a leg to stand on.

More importantly, the landlord has also now applied for a new HMO license, which means the fire hazards in his property will need to be addressed.