UCAS clearing - swap Economics with Engineering - any tips?

[blueshoes]

Ds' UCAS application is a bit of a hot mess.

He got an offer of AAA/A*AB from Nottingham Uni for Economics. He has changed his mind and wants to do Engineering

His subjects at A level are Economics, Physics and Maths with predicted grades of AAB in that order. He thinks he can get AAA or AAA for his results and is hoping to trade up to a higher tariff university to do Engineering😬

He has to go into clearing 😭

The universities he has in mind are Bristol, Bath, UCL, Warwick, Manchester, Sheffield and Leeds.

He does not want Oxbridge (erm, not that he has a choice). Has he got a chance at Imperial at all, considering he does not have Further Maths? I guess Imperial won't come up in clearing so he will have to do a gap year and try with grades in hand. Is that even worth bothering or too pie in the sky?

Hoping for tips and experiences. TIA

If he definitely does not want the Nottingham Economics offer he's probably best initially to get as high as he can in his A levels and see what is in clearing.

It may be worth having a back up plan of a gap year incase he's not happy with what he can get through clearing and thinking what he could do in that. If he's unsure between economics and engineering it may be worth doing that especially if he could get a year out scheme related to engineering or job related to economics and try them out. If he wanted he could do FM in a gap year too.

What type of engineering?
i know of people predicted 3 a stars who have not had offers from Bristol or Bath for mechanical or aerospace. Same for Manchester. Sheffield are asking for Astar AA for their courses so it really depends on the area. I think civil engineering is a bit lower.

The bolding has messed up your post @blueshoes – are his PGs Astar A B? And is he thinking he might have gained Astar, A, Astar?

Oxford, Cambridge and Imperial don't use clearing. The universities he is looking at do have courses in clearing, but how likely it is that they will be the ones he wants is the question. There’s the additional issue of accommodation – not all unis guarantee student accomm for clearing offers.

Other things being equal, he might be better taking a gap year and reapplying. He should try to continue his maths during the gap year if he does that tho, as that can be an issue.

@MsPengiuns thank you for your suggestions. A gap year sounds like a definite possibility as I cannot imagine the engineering courses in those universities come up for clearing too often. Ds' preferred engineering is mechanical.

How would ds get a year out scheme related to engineering? He did a week long internship at Mott MacDonald last summer which seemed to go well and will try to tap them up. How would he research other year long schemes out there?

Also, would he have to self teach himself FM in the gap year? I guess he could get a tutor.

@NCTDN ds wants to do general engineering but not many unis offer that so his next choice is mechanical engineering. He will consider aerospace, automotive, structural, materials science and civil but not electrical, computer, chemical or biomedical-related engineering.

You are right. Sheffield has civil engineering courses in clearing. So if he gets the grades, he can angle for that.

I think this scheme does year in industry placements for engineering though its what I did myself about 100 years ago 😂even though doing an economics degree. There might be other ones and hopefully someone has the up to date situation. I got mine last minute and it says they are accepting applications still. Engineering used to be able to get sponsorship sometimes as well so maybe worth looking if that still happens.

https://www.etrust.org.uk/programmes-platinum-placements

Re A levels again someone else may know better than me yes I guess self teach and private entry one option, a tutor and private entry another, maybe ask at current school or an adult education college though not sure if you have to be 19 for that. There are online schools as well. FM is hard though with a high drop out rate.

@clary, sorry about the bolding thing.

DS's predicted grades are A*AB.

He thinks he can possibly get AAA or A*AA on results day on 14 August.

That is quite a leap in grades, I know. It remains to be seen. It is a big of a long story. Ds confessed he has not be revising properly for any of his exams (GCSE, mocks) until the day before😱. He was diagnosed with ADHD and prescribed medication 10 days before his first A level paper. The medication worked wonders for his concentration and motivation. He worked solidly through the entire A level exam period. He thinks he did well generally, but it depends on the grade boundaries so yeah, it might not happen. If he does not get the grades, he can do engineering at Nottingham which has quite a low requirement but he would like to trade up if possible.

Looks like he has some tough choices on results day if he gets the grades but not the preferred course.

Found this:

www.thescholarshiphub.org.uk/engineering-scholarships/

Argh, he thinks he can possibly get Astar Astar A or Astar AA on results day on 14 August.

The penny has just dropped that ** bolds

Thanks for the link!

@MsPengiuns the etrust platinum placements link is just the thing. Thanks so much. Will get ds to check it out tomorrow.

I just remembered. Ds wants to study engineering because he finds studying engineering as a subject more interesting than economics but he is as likely to look for a career in finance as one in engineering. Doing engineering at uni does not close off a career in finance so he is adding more strings to his bow.

You also mentioned a year long scheme related to economics. Do you know how he can get a scheme related to economics or finance. That would be quite the dream for him.

I don't know if year in industry schemes exist for economics / finance. I haven't heard of any but they might exist.

There are internships but think they are often for university holidays like these ones. I don't know if it still exists but I also got jobs in 2 banks in gap year via temp agencies, maybe look online on recruitment sites. Otherwise maybe do things which give skills that are relevant. Maybe worth considering things abroad - languages are useful and international exposure.

www.prospects.ac.uk/jobs-and-work-experience/job-sectors/accountancy-banking-and-finance/finance-internships

@MsPengiuns thanks again for the link. I will get ds onto researching finance internships. This is incredibly helpful 🙏

Sounds like you have it sorted OP. Just for your DS’s info, mechanical engineering at lots of the unis you mention in your first post is super super competitive - one of my kids had 3 x A star predicted and didn’t get offers for mech eng from Bristol or Bath, for instance. For Manchester the offer was two A star and one A; Warwick was one A star and two As. Highly doubt they’ll be in clearing, and if they are they will be snapped up very quickly.

This isn’t to put a dampener on him, more a warning that if he does get the grades he will have to move extremely fast and have already done some research into what’s likely to be available. I think mech eng is the most popular engineering course. For what it’s worth, Bath offered my son robotics engineering instead, so presumably that was less competitive.

Hi, OP -

@clary has highlighted the issue. With PGs and possible grades like that, DS belongs in programmes that are less likely to go into Clearing.

BTW I think Civ Eng can be a great course leading to a great career, and might be less mathematical than Mech Eng (perhaps @tizerorfizz would weigh in on this?). (Mech Eng is one of the most mathsy of the engineering programmes, FWIW.). Sheffield is super for Engineering. So if he does like that option for Clearing and makes his grades, he will be in a strong position.

However, gently, your enthusiasm for @MsPengiuns post regarding finance internships makes me wonder whether the switch is right for DS. High school economics is quite plebian. Economics A level usn’t even required for many top Economics degree programmes - ask DS to think about what that means.

In an Economics programme he would be surrounded by classmates who share more of his long term interests and goals. The clubs and societies would reflect that. Etc.

( BTW I write this as someone on Team STEM)

Best wishes to DS

I also think a gap year could be a good option, and it’s much less stressful applying with grades in hand. My youngest took a gap year and changed his mind about which uni he wanted to go to and length of course, so that was definitely the right choice for him.

If he doesn’t know which branch of engineering he wants to go into, some time out would give him a chance to do some research, or maybe a general engineering course might suit him?

Agree with keeping maths skills up to date if he does take a year out - FM would be useful.

@PacificState thanks for your thoughts. It is good to know mechanical engineering is so competitive. Ds needs to manage his expectations about what engineering course he can get at the higher tariff unis at clearing, if at all. Robotics at Bath sounds fantastic. Well done to your son for getting the offer.

Ds has created a spreadsheet of the engineering courses at his target universities and target courses in decreasing order of preference.

Dh, ds and I will then set up a war room at 8 am (or as early as possible) on results day to work the clearing phones with the admissions team at the various unis. Will be running on adrenaline and lots of coffee.

@clary I do like Sheffield for engineering as well, so glad to hear from you that it is super for engineering. Being realistic, Sheffield is probably ds' best chance at clearing if he gets the grades.

I told ds to consider civil if he intends to start uni in Sept this year. He is open to it. The slight issue I have with civil (not that it is my choice) is that I have this distant thought for ds to do an engineering degree that is relevant to the defence industry. Civil is probably one of the less relevant degrees though I am not sure about that as it is not my field. Then again, if ds wants to work in finance, it does not matter and he should just go for the highest tariff uni engineering course he can get into, I guess.

Your comment on ds re-considering Economics at uni has thrown me into a spin. I am used to it because of ds flip-flopping around anyway. Ds looked into the courses for the Econs degrees. It seemed to repeat A level micro- and macro- Econs courses that he did at A level. Hence why A level econs is not needed for uni entry but they are probably taught at a different level at uni. The stuff that ds studied at A level sounded quite tough to me (and I did Econs at A level 30 years ago!) so the syllabus may have changed.

Maybe he can do engineering but hang out at the finance-related clubs and societies. I do get your point about being with like-minded students.

Just to add, I worked in civil engineering in the defence industry.

Thanks @SabrinaThwaite A gap year sounds like it could be good for ds to ground himself and decide what he wants.

Ds was only just diagnosed with ADHD. Medication has made such an immediate and great difference to his focus and self-esteem that his possibilities have expanded and he is now like a kid in a sweet shop wanting everything.

I can definitely see ds changing his mind again.

His first choice is actually general engineering but it seems to be a popular course offered by only a few of his target unis.

He has to research setting up a year long placement and FM course now to inform his decision on results day whether a gap year is a productive option.

Apologies @poetryandwine I meant to tag you but tagged clary by mistake. I need to get the hang of this.

With Economics courses its worth looking at course content - macro and micro are similar to A level but taught differently and many students will have Economics A level. There can be a wide variety of options - very maths based, econometrics, history, politics, development economics (countries) and a course with options is good for someone undecided.

My DD was a serial changer throughout A levels before settling on Economics / E&M and it is useful to talk things through with them and see their reasoning. I would also look up if he's not done it already engineering courses. My husband is an engineer and there is some similarities between the jobs they do and the maths based economics / finance jobs and they do have quite a few leave engineering as the finance jobs tend to pay more. If he is motivated by money accountancy qualifications can be a good option.

No problem, OP. It is interesting that @SabrinaThwaite has worked in Civ Eng for the defence

The recent diagnosis is great news and doing FM would defo address the concerns about Maths during the gap year. I’m coming to agree with @SabrinaThwaite that DS might benefit from taking time to fully adjust to his medication, his new found self esteem, the FM, etc and gain clarity on what he wants to do.

Edit …. For the defence industry

Sounds like a good plan! I agree a year off to really think through the options is a good fall-back. (As others have said, some mathsy courses don’t like the year off because of the perception that maths skills get rusty. While he’s in research mode, get him to ask admissions teams about whether a year off while doing FM A level would be acceptable for them - no point wasting an application if some departments have a hard block on gap year applicants.) Good luck!