Help advice needed re really poor uni admin screw ups

[RhubarbandC]

Help my son is at a pretty well thought of uni. He is ND and also struggling with his MH. Last summer he got EC and did 2 resists which he passed well. This enabled him to continue on to the 3rd year of an MEng this year. He had an email confirming this.Unfortunately they made an admin mistake and unrolled him for a few weeks so he started his dissertation 4 weeks late and don’t get the subject he was expecting. He didn’t have a great year mentally and the above didn’t help but managed to submit his dissertation and do his final exams this year .Needs to do 2 resists and resubmit his dissertation. EC were discussed by course leader before both. Nothing onerous. Went online today and last years resits have been removed from his profile with the result that they have awarded him a DipED and off the retake route for a BEng which is completely incorrect. He has emailed to alert them to the error but we’re really worried they won’t be able to find last years resists grades if they’ve just disappeared. It’s such a stupid mistake as he wouldn’t have been allowed on to the third year without them.

He has paid a fortune for this degree and needs to study for the 2 resists but can’t even book them. The worry isn’t helping him focus on his studying and I’m so bloody angry, their admin is shite. These young people pay a fortune in fees , his ND and MH struggles are well documented and twice he has been messed around.

Is this normal and how likely is it that the grades will be found?

Would he not be better resitting year 3 rather than independent study? This has been a difficult few weeks but he is failing some exams and would surely benefit from this input. Also why the pressure to push on to study at masters when undergraduate study is proving so difficult?

Ok Will get on to disability team, doing an EC form tonight. It would be the other way round, exams would be the most viable now. His dissertation was a car crash and didn’t have a great start due to a another mess up by admin. Similar issues- the computer system just doesn’t cope.He was disenrolled for a few weeks at the beginning of the year last year so had no timetable and the subject he’d signed up for got nabbed by somebody else. He hates confrontation and upsetting people so wouldn’t ask for his subject back and got something else. Had to play catch up with the research and his mental health really spiralled. Open ended style of study was a steep learning curve too- but he pushed through and did it.

Not going to lie I’m nervous about him doing it all in May but he was sounding quite certain it would be best and has a good plan to sort it all. It would only be one exam that needed some serious input . I guess students do resit things in May and it’s not unheard or a totally nuts idea??? I’m just worried about pace and frankly need closure for myself- and him. But he is determined to get an 2:1and to do a Masters eventually after having worked in the sector for a while. I think he feels ND has robbed him of a lot already and feels a 2:1 is a more accurate reflection of him. We’ve told him we’d be proud of a 2:2 given all he’s been through but🤷‍♀️

My post from 23.22 last night may have been based on incorrect assumptions. I thought the course leader had (earlier) offered to let DS ‘carry’ the two resits until May whilst continuing in Y3.

Was this correct or would postponing til May mean pausing his education?

I am actually with @LIZS and @Tantomile . I think either resitting Y2 or pausing his education (preferably resitting, but I recognise the financial issue) is very much in DS best interest.

I write as a STEM academic and former admissions tutor who has sat on many EC panels. I think this is by far his best chance of getting that 2.1.

Y3 is much harder than Y2. Without a firm foundation in Y2, DS will struggle worse. He will do better when he feels more confident.

Also, he can use the ‘extra’ year to make his dissertation really good, to develop a way to cope with email and life admin, etc. He will feel more confident when he can handle these things.

Does DS have extra time on exams and perhaps other allowances for his ND? You said he hasn’t engaged with the Office for Students with Disabilities. He really needs to do that. They help and they advocate.

I just got a Notice that I am cross posting with you, OP!

He’s in year 3 of an MEng. Had the grades for a 2:1. at end of year 2 after a retake of a exam(mental overload spiral at end of year). So doing them in May will mean a year a year out in between I guess what would end up being a BEng and an MSc. Do you think retaking year 3 is a good idea? We figured that financially he
could very likely not get funding for an MSc after 4 years for under graduate degree and would end up needing to find a company that’s would sponsor him( not always likely).

He wants to do the masters ( no pressure from us)as in engineering you need to be accredited and he thinks he will be limited without it.

I apologise for getting confused between Y2 and Y3. (Jet lag) The principle is the same. Y4 is much more difficult than Y3. I think DS would benefit from resitting Y3 to become very confident of his knowledge. Aim to do his very best.

Acquire those life admin skills. Sign up with the Office for Students with Disabilities and ask them what mitigations he is entitled to, then take them. Do everything they say.

Again, I think he should screenshot that incorrect record of marks right away if he hasn’t already, and store copies in his and your personal accounts. This is his record that this ‘impossible’ thing happened.

DS can discuss this plan with the OfSwD . Because the uni have messed him over twice in addition to failing to fund his support hours which he must emphasise to them I think they will agree it is a sound plan. His course leader and DUS should see it the same way, hopefully, if he provides the same emphasis.

Again best wishes to him

‘Failing to fund his support hours’ - I am guessing ££ might be the issue. I mean that for whatever reason the uni did not fulfil his support agreement.

Ok, thanks so much for all your advice. One thing. What happens re funding of the 4th year if you’ve already had your 4 years of funding?

Hope the jet lag improves.

Did DS originally apply to the 4 yr programme?

Is he resident in England?

Resident in uk.

Was originally on BEng but moved to MEng after year 2 I think it was because grades were good enough.

Part of his rational in doing resits in May is thinking having a break from academia, trying meds and getting a job for a year or 2 before doing his Masters might be beneficial but he is conflicted as am I.

He should check with sfe but I think the available funding is extended beyond four years for an integrated masters

@LIZS is generally very good. I haven’t been involved with admissions for a while so I am not up on the details but I think she is corrrct, for England.

SFE is Student Finance England. Each nation has its own rules.

I know it is a hard decision but a higher degree class will help a lot, even though a 2.2 does not mean all is lost by any means!

Ideally he would repeat Y3, due to the EC of stress caused by the uni making so many mistakes with an ND student. He would practise life skills during the year. It is much, much easier than trying to study on your own, especially while working.

If he gets his 2.1 and if the finances work (if the loan system allows him to repeat a year) he can continue on to Y4.

That’s why I asked what about DS country of residence. There are zillions of ND Mech Eng students across the land. Country of residence won’t be outing.

It’ll be different at every place but at my place, it would be the Exams or Assessment Officer who would be the best contact (these are academic staff) ,plus the Departmental Administrator (admin person).

His Personal tutor can be an advocate but it’s the assessment officer he needs.

He (you) need to check with SFE (or the equivalent if not England) but for England if he originally applied for the BEng, he is entitled to a max of four years UG funding (which would include the MEng as integrated masters use UG funding mechanism). If he originally applied for the MEng then his entitlement is five years. At SFE’s discretion they may allow one further year for ‘compelling curcumstances.’

Note none of the above affects eligibility for Masters loan if he decides to do an MSc rather than the MEng.

Thank you @titchy

OP, even repeating a year means DS must do a separate MSc I think it is worth it.

He has had greater difficulty in each year. If he must complete Y4, which is already difficult, plus two May resits and his dissertation, I am very concerned that will be too much. Who knows what the stress could do to him?

Repeating Y3 to get things right puts him in a:strong position for Y4. If he explains to Office for Students with Disabilities - concisely and factually - the various ways the uni has screwed up and caused hum stress, I think the Office will be able to advise him. They will need to know his diagnoses, of course.

As a point of interest, if this is Lancaster as PP wondered, I am hugely concerned but not hugely surprised. I have thought highly of Lancaster for a while now, but they are in the midst of a huge financial crisis. It would not be surprising if they are trying to save ££ on IT, in one way or another, allowing for screw ups. But inexcusable nonetheless. Other students won’t find this mistake (for I bet it is not unique to DS) until it is really too late.

I understand if you don’t want to identify the uni although I don’t see any harm in doing so. But if you want financial advice we need your country of residence.

Take care

And sadly, OP, you are seeing the results of the under-investment and cuts to HE caused by the insufficiency of Home students’ tuition fee. You may feel he’s paying a lot, but it actually doesn’t actually cover the costs of his education. Universities are cutting admin staff to the bone, and academics are having to do a lot more of the administrative work that we’re not actually trained to do (and it’s not actually our job).

@poetryandwine has given you excellent advice. It’s very important that your DS has a clear timeline summary with evidence to back it up. It needs to be succinct and entirely factual.

There are Referred /Deferred Exam boards after the Summer resit period -usually in September at which his case should be considered.

It’s probably likely that his university website published an academic calendar. Mine does - it has term dates, dates of the examination period both in the Summer Term and the resits. So while it won’t have a full exam timetable your DS should be able to judge roughly when his resits will be scheduled. He should be studying anyway I guess if he knows he has resits to do.

As a university admin person who deals with a lot of results processing, I can tell you that it's not an IT issue as such - none of this is automated in any meaningful way at my university. It's an admin issue: when a student needs resits, a repeat year, etc it's a huge manual job to get their record updated. And, with a skeleton staff at probably most institutions now and financial cutbacks that mean (a) an unwillingness to replace those who leave, (b) a loss of crucial knowledge and experience as people cut their losses and leave before they are made redundant, and (c) everyone working under the threat of either redundancy or an even more unmanageable workload because there will be even fewer staff... well, mistakes can and do happen.

HOWEVER there are still people like me who genuinely care, genuinely want to get it right for students and will go above and beyond to try and make sure that students are OK.

@RhubarbandC you don't have to say which institution it is, but it probably isn't massively outing if you do. I could be outing myself here massively, though, so I'll stop there for now.

But for the benefit of anyone reading this, please don't be under any illusions: universities are critically underfunded now, we literally make a loss on every single UK undergraduate with their £9250 (£9535 from next year) tuition fees, the only students who actually boost uni finances are the international students (whose numbers are dwindling in terrifying fashion) and universities are absolutely destroying their staff morale and ability to do their jobs with threats of redundancies or workloads that go massively beyond what is actually possible for actual humans to do. (And we're still a long way off AI being able to replace us, although it will presumably happen within my lifetime.)

Every mistake is unacceptable. But there are going to be more and more and more of them as we cut staff, centralise admin, and lose years of institutional memory/knowledge/experience as staff leave in droves.

So is a Masters loan separate to the undergraduate loans ie if he retakes year 3 and will have had 4 years funding would he then get a Masters loan later. Going to reply to all the other comments when I’ve read though them properly.

Yes a Masters loan is separate. An integrated Masters (MEng) has UG funding. Crucially, and apologies for missing this out, once a grad has got an integrated Masters they are not eligible for a Masters loan.

Ok so to clarify( sorry to sound dim) but if he ends up with a BEng over 4 years he’d still get funding for an MSc (5th year).

We are not sure, OP. We can help you look into this if you tell us DS nation of residence.

Ah sorry, we live in England.

Hi just to chip in, don't assume he can choose to retake a year to improve grades. Students cannot do that in my institution unless they withdraw during the year, bed exams and assessments. Once we're into resits and results, it's then a registry outcome. So if after the final board a student hasn't completed the credits, they would end up in a retake situation.

He may be allowed to of it's part of the regs with the EC, according to your uni. But do check. Don't assume anything.

Edited by MNHQ at request of OP.
I do get that it’s not the fault of admin staff having cuts dumped on them however those higher up should take some responsibility. Students are the consumers ie without their fees there is no uni and they’re not cheap. Reliable admin is a basic necessity. Sadly there have been other issues too with a badly taught module( other students complained about), an exam on things they hadn’t been taught and then on one of his retakes last year for said module there was a mess up with an incorrect paper being given to them. It’s just one thing after another. Then he was disenrolled for the beginning of the term after that, had no timetable , lost his dissertation title due being disenrolled , then this debacle.Bad enough for any student but when you have NDx2 in the mix it’s pretty catastrophic. He’s registered with learning support which makes it even more frustrating. His sibling is at a lesser ( and probably poorer uni)and doesn’t seem to have half these issues. I just feel he’s been really let down and I do regret him going there. To his credit he has handled all this, his ND, MH struggles and was holding his own with a 2:1 average up until this point.