Are there any universities that AREN'T experiencing cuts? And which ones to avoid? Worried about paying a fortune for university fees and not getting value for money

[YetAnotherNewNameAgain]

I think I've written everything in the thread title 😬

DC is interested in stem - maths, physics, computer science type degrees.

But it is a fortune for your average family. Where I live, public universities are not only free but students get a small grant to study, just like students used to get in the UK. But the UK government prefers to spend money on arms

Er, no. No sweeping statements (well, maybe not everyone 'reviles' International students - maybe only MN parents who don't want their PFBs to have to study with them).

The current Home UG fee does not cover the basic costs of any degree. It used to just about cover some (not all) Arts & Hums students, but no longer.

Look at what International students pay and that's pretty much what it costs for every student.

There are no direct government subsidies to universities for teaching UGs. International students subsidise Home UGs, as do university staff working a lot of unpaid overtime, while facing the kind of dismissive "they don't work enough hours" comments from parents (see some PPs on this thread!) and some arsey students who do ridiculous calculations such as the one upthread - working out the supposed hourly rate of 4 hours per week of teaching in terms of the tuition fee ie 9800/(4 x 30 weeks) = hourly rate of tuition.

I just hope that idiots making those sorts of calculations don't go on to run businesses or organisations. They'll fail!

If you think of it as a graduate tax, repayable over your working lifetime, and only when your salary reaches a specific level, then it's hardly a fortune. No-one's being asked to put down £9,800 in tenners at the start of the year.

QR funding (for research) subsidises the research unis do. Because, surprise surprise, most funders don’t fund the full cost of research - the QR (comes from Gov via UKRI - an arms length body of DSIT) helps towards that. But doesn’t cover in full, so again those overseas student fees help us out.

Tbf we do get some Gov funds for teaching - about £1000 per FT science student (med students on clinical placement also get £10k - but that mostly goes to the hospitals that train them), plus £100 per disabled student (and no, I haven’t missed a zero) and those at bigger risk of dropping out (mostly part time time students).

Sheffield?

in a dire state. Especially in STEM

Anyone know the state of Bath or Warwick?

The thing for affordability for students is they don't just have course fees, they have housing costs. These can be as much as the course fees, for a fairly short let. Yes you can live at home, but only if you happen to live near a university that does a good course in what you want to study.

I think the trouble is that people don’t understand how much it costs to provide HE.

Yes, topping up to the full loan - often £6k per year is a lot for a family to find. A total cost of over £20k for living and tuition sounds a lot…but it costs more than that.

Students need to pay more, not less. Whether that comes from families or government doesn’t really matter for unis…they need to cover their costs.

Something to consider is uni at home. Part of the shake-down will be that going away to uni will become a luxury…possibly a bit like going to private school. Most won’t be able to afford it. But more will be able to afford to go to uni at home and top up the tuition fees. As a society, wanting close to 50% to attend, that’s what society can porobably afford.

It’s all v well saying gov should subsidise it more etc etc, but we are where we are. They don’t and can’t. At the moment it’s the worst if everything for unis….they aren’t subsidised by government but also have fee limited placed in them, which means they can’t get enough revenue in. And as this thread shows, if fees were to reflect the true cost, lots of families and students would feel horrified as they do t u derstand what it costs to provide. They already think the £10k fees, or the parental contribution to the loan is excessive. Yes, it is expensive for families, but it’s still not enough money.

Living away to go to one of the best unis will become a luxury for those who can afford to pay. It will become like funding private school fees. Going to the local uni, will become more the. I’m…like going to the local state school. You will be able to have what you can afford.

Your DS is conveniently leaving out the many lectures every day that he could have gone to which are also contact time.

If he was only having 4hrs of contact time per week, he wasn’t going to his lectures. Those are also “contact time”, just as in-college tutorials are. They aren’t meant to be decoration — students are meant actually to go to them!

University of Leeds is currently doing better that most other Universities in the sector - for the moment anyway.

We’ve evolved a system whereby going away for university has become a rite of passage for many, much like in America.

On the Continent it is much more typical to live at home while attending university, and familial relationships have evolved to allow for DC to mature within this situation. In some countries academic positions are allocated centrally in such a way as to approximately keep pockets of research excellence equitable amongst regional universities, though capital cities inevitably become research magnets.

It tends to work, although I am not really suggesting that the UK needs more micromanagement at the present time.

university financial positions can also change quite quickly for the worse. Where I work we were forecasting quite positively, then there was some sort of economic situation in one of our key recruitment markets overseas, the numbers dropped dramatically because they couldn’t afford to come and so did our forecasts and therefore financial situation.

that is to say, unless you’ve got a crystal ball, you need to just let your DS pick what’s right for him. If there is a total crisis and university shuts down or cancels his course, they will have to make provision for him.

Yeeessss - but they're certainly not essential or monitored (in my day at least). I did Classics at Oxford in the 90s, and I rarely went to lectures. I loved my subject, but I just didn't really enjoy lectures as a teaching mechanism, and I found there was hardly ever anything you couldn't get from reading the relevant chapter of the book. Tutorials were a totally different kettle of fish. Things might have changed though.

That’s true, but if the DS is complaining that he only has four hours of “contact time” then that certainly isn’t the case!

@marshmallowpuff I don't think I said he complained. He graduated in 2017 with a first, completed his PhD in 2023, and is working as an academic. He thoroughly enjoyed his time.

Leaving the UK at the end of the summer sadly.