Engineering without Physics ALevel?

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Daughter has decided Engineering is her preferred route. However, she did not realise this until halfway through year 12 and she does not take ALevel Physics. To remedy this, she started ALevel Further Maths halfway through year 12, caught up by teaching herself and is now likely to get a predicted A/A in it. Other Alevels are Maths (likely predicted A), Biology (likely predicted A) and Chemistry (likely predicted A/A).

She does also have a GCSE in Engineering at grade 8 and also GCSE Physics at Grade 9.

She thinks she would prefer an Engineering course that offers a general year 1 and allows to specialise in year 2 onwards. It seems to make sense to also only do an accredited course, so she can one day work towards Chartered status. If not general in year 1, she thinks she likes the idea of either Aerospace, Mechanical or Systems Engineering.

Have attended open days at Exeter or Warwick so far and loved the sound of the course at Warwick. Warwick prefer candidates to have Physics but will consider applicants with a 'strong profile' who don't have it. So not sure how realistic this is.

We are looking for advice for where else we should consider bearing in mind her lack of Physics. We think Sheffield might be a good shout? Any help from people who know more than us would be appreciated! She will be the first in my my entire family time go to Uni and it's a massive commitment/expense for us. We want to make sure it really counts and try to make the best choice. She doesn't currently have a preference for campus/city unis she will consider anything.

Well done for your daughter's grades, they look very impressive.

There are many engineering courses. Leeds, Manchester, York, Bath, lots of engineering courses in London.

I would say go to as many Open days as possible, you often discover something unexpected, little bits of useful intelligence by informal talk.

You can get to many places by train and bus of you don't have a car/don't like motorway driving.

Chemical engineers apparently make a lot of money.

Good luck

Find a uni with a foundational year?

Or speak to a Scottish university? It’s 4 years rather than three, and the first year is essentially a foundation year that is equivalent to the second year of a levels. DH did physics for his highers and then a physics degree and said the first year was a repeat of the same stuff. I don’t know if it’s any different for engineering.

I went to uni late and I planned to do engineering but like your DD I had biology, chemistry and math. I did an evening course two nights a week at Birkbeck University and got the equivalent of physics and further maths a levels. I was offered a place in several engineering courses but I ended up doing physics in Scotland and went straight to second year.

For some reason it won't let me edit my post and it's knocked off the asterisks. To clarify, her predicted grades should hopefully be: Maths Astar, Further Maths Astar/A, Biology Astar and Chemistry Astar/A

My dd has just completed her mEng in EEE (got a first and graduate engineering job starts in September, super proud mum!)

We are in Scotland and she crashed higher physics in her final 6th year; it was Covid 2020 so everything shut down before the one year course completed and exams were cancelled. she had not studied physics since her third year at school and did not sit Nat 5 (Scottish equivalent to gcse)

Engineering whatever discipline is a full on course but my dd thoroughly enjoyed it and was awarded IET top student last year. If your dd is motivated and enthusiastic she will do well.

Hi, OP -

This is a lovely dilemma but a dilemma nonetheless.

Your DD belongs in a top notch Engineering programme. However almost all of them want Physics. I had first thought of Scotland for the same reasons as @SENMum2025 . But focussing on Mech Eng because of your DD’s excellent Maths, I saw that the two top Scottish universities in the UK, Strathclyde and Glasgow, both require Physics. So do almost all the top English ones.

An important exception is Sheffield, which will accept Chemistry instead. And Sheffield is absolutely super for Engineering and ranked 6th in the UK for Mech Eng in the Complete University Guide. The other high ranking Mech Eng programmes also explicitly accepting Chemistry instead of Physics are Leeds (ranked 7th) and Liverpool (ranked 12th) - and it is possible I missed something. I would expect your DD easily to gain admission to all of these provided she writes a halfway decent application. All are worth investigating.

But most of the others excellent Mech Eng programmes really prefer Physics. Even when they say they will consider FM instead, the teaching is geared to those who have Physics. As an academic and former STEM admissions tutor, I don’t think it is necessarily in your DD’s best interests to enrol in a programme for which she is missing important background.

So, although it seems like overkill at first glance, if DD is interested in the really competitive programmes such as Warwick she may want to consider a Foundation Year. As able as she is, so is everyone at eg Warwick. And they will have the A star at Physics, and the teaching will assume a good Physics background. Why would DD put herself at a disadvantage at the beginning of a super demanding programme?

If you are in England , the student loan will pay for the FY integrated with the degree, but you can also apply to move between the FY and Y1 with no financial disruption.

I don’t know whether the Warwick FY is suitable for engineers. The admissions team in Mech Eng ought to be happy to advise DD about how to come up to speed in Physics before applying. Email is best.

Oxford do a STEM FY that is a great option for those who are eligible; it is for students from somewhat disadvantaged backgrounds. Those who pass are automatically admitted to Oxford degree programmes. If DD may qualify on social grounds, it sounds to me that she has a decent chance of admission to this very competitive programme. This is certainly worth investigating!

She could also go to Warwick (or …..) after the Oxford FY.

This is frustrating. I hope it works out well. Best wishes to DD

What about looking for a degree apprenticeship?

I was going to update my earlier post even before you updated your daughter is predicted some A*s. Lots of state school students undershoot themselves by not applying to Cambridge and Oxford as it seems to be so much out of their reach.

Look at Cambridge and Oxford too and consider taking a gap year as some require the applicants to pass their own entrance exams.

It's a big investment of time, effort and money. There is nothing to lose by aiming for the stars.

Definetely go to as many Open Days as possible.

By the way, Cabridge chemical and biotechnology engineering course does not require physics
https://www.undergraduate.study.cam.ac.uk/courses/chemical-engineering-biotechnology-ba-hons-meng

Also look up Mumsent thread

Do you need all A* GCSE for Oxbridge?

for useful tips for applying to a top university

Thank you for all the help so far, it's very much appreciated. She was originally pretty certain for years that she would do something with biology or maths. Maths just comes naturally and she's always loved it. However, she has also always been quite into building stuff, working out how things work and really enjoyed parts of her GCSE engineering course. We originally booked Exeter and Warwick open days because of the maths but both times she also booked into the engineering talks and it's reconfirmed that she is more excited about an engineering career. We are also going to the Cambridge open day next month, as she still might be tempted with maths there as she's always had getting into Cambridge as a pipe dream. However, I have a feeling she will ultimately decide on engineering. We will be going to the open days at Sheffield and Leeds later this year as they seem good options for accredited degrees if you don't have Physics. If she can achieve the grades she's been predicted and has a good enough personal statement I guess she can also still have a go at Warwick. She was really inspired by the talk there and the fact they seem keen on getting more females into engineering.

Would she consider Chemical or Biomedical Engineering? I would have they would be a better match for her A-levels than Mechanical.

I'd look for the course/ uni she really likes and apply for a foundation year there - this is exactly what they are intended for in engineering. My ds has just finished his foundation year in mech eng having not done Maths A level (did physics, biology, product design) and has loved it.

Physics is important as the knowledge in it is foundational for a lot of the degree, so its not just a box checking exercise for applicants. I would suggest she take a gap year and combine physics A level with some other work experience in an engineering related field, and some overseas travel. She would then be in an excellent place to apply to Oxbridge or one of the other challenging programs that her intellect clearly deserves.

This is a great idea. I absolutely want your DD to aim as high as she likes, and Warwick is a great shout. Oxford/Cambridge is reasonable and no one gets better odds than that. But Physics is needed there - this is an advantage of the Oxford FY route if eligible.

Warwick Mech Eng (or similar) without Physics, however, puts her at a disadvantage relative to her peers and the teaching style.

Some of my fellow admissions tutors have also happily told bright students that because they are smart it is OK to be short some of the entry requirements. (Our School has a very high entry requirement also). These students are often assigned more nurturing personal tutors including Guess Who. And it is usually hard for them.

I know the FY route is overkill for your DD because all she needs is Physics. If DD likes @SeaToSki ’s idea she needs to check whether her preferred unis will agree, as a number of STEM schools worry about gap years. She should explain the plan and possibly consider learning some programming, which will enhance her application a bit. The Physics and the coding can be said to be keeping her in touch with Maths - losing Maths during gap year is the worry.

I was thinking as above, I run a sixth form and I don't have any aspirational engineers who don't do physics, obviously it's possible and I think being a woman is probably a bonus but equally her grades sounds like she should aim for the most challenging/prestigious universities and physics would benefit her in that. It might be worth asking if during Year 13 she could either sit in on Year 12 Physics if the timetable allows to give her a headstart get her head back in it, it might make doing the full A Level easier in a year out.

I get a lot of emails about work experience programmes for girls/women in STEM I'm on maternity at the moment so my head isn't in it but if I find any I will post them on here.

Yes, we'd read that gap years are not a good idea because of the maths. We wouldn't be eligible for the Oxford foundation scheme previously mentioned. It's all very confusing! Would an engineering degree from somewhere like Sheffield still be a decent degree? I've suggested Chemical Engineering before, but sadly she is put off as she has really not enjoyed her Chemistry ALevel so far

Sheffield is more than decent! Sheffield is internationally recognised for the quality of its Engineering programmes.

Hi, OP -

DD can join the online forum The Student Room where she can ask whatever questions she likes of students in specific degree programmes around the UK. The quality of the forum is pretty high, I think.

what experience does your daughter have with coding and computers? That would open up more engineering specialties.

Have you looked at Southampton’s foundation year? https://www.southampton.ac.uk/courses/foundation-years/engineering-physics-maths-geophysics.page#entry_requirements

My son is at Warwick Uni for Engineering and I have been so impressed with the course and the links to industry. He loves it.

But I don't think it's as competitive as people say here. Have a look at the stats here:
https://warwick.ac.uk/services/sg/spa/academicstatistics/admissions/

For women, nearly all applicants are given an offer (310 out of 353). Of course many choose to go elsewhere or don't end up as places because A Levels are always over predicted. So I don't think it's wasting a slot to apply if that's what she wants. Apply for the BEng. It's easy to swap onto the MEng if you are getting grades that support that. It's all very flexible.

Something she should be aware of is that I don't think Warwick do Aero. (My son applied not knowing this and only found out after the offers were out. Seems to have worked out OK for him. Far fewer jobs in Aero than Mechancial, so I was pleased)

I can also recommend visiting Formula Student at Silverstone end of July. It's a big thing at Warwick and she can talk to some of the team. Good for personal statement.

I think the DD sounds very strong and I am not denying that she might get an offer. I am concerned that , lacking Physics, she mat not be well prepared for the degree programme.

I have seen too many admissions tutors blithely promise consideration to very able applicants lacking certain prerequisites, and seen the consequences. If this were bot Warwick but a university with lower entry requirements where key concepts from A level were being retaught thoroughly at a reasonable pace, it would be different. Why should the DD put herself at a disadvantage against peers of equal ability?

Strangely, Chemical Engineering is only about 20% Chemistry.

So many helpful replies on here, it really is appreciated. I'm pretty sure Warwick will be her preferred route although I appreciate the very valid points about her lack of Physics putting her at a disadvantage. The very impressive woman who spoke at their open day, said that the very few who might get accepted without Maths/Physics are put on a rigourous catch up plan in the first year. I got the impression a lack of Maths would be a bigger issue than a lack of Physics but I might be wrong. The Warwick course was very appealing as everyone does a general first year before specialising later on. Very useful for someone who isn't 100% sure which path to go down without trying things out first! Exeter has the same approach, however I have scoured their website and I don't think all of their courses after you specialise are accredited. I might be wrong, but I think it seems much more sensible to go for an accredited course.

Does anybody know whether Nottingham might be another good option for Engineering? Their website is not very easy to navigate and finding it difficult to find out which of their courses are actually accredited. Which makes me think that perhaps they aren't!

Am I overthinking the accredited thing?

I am keen to arm myself with as much information as possible so I can support her in making the best decision for her.

Highly recommend an accredited course, OP.

Your about Warwick sounds more sound.

Again, best wishes to DD

Edit: Your update about Warwick …..