Guardian or good university guide or something else?

[SCANDEL0US]

How do I know which of these is reliable for looking for a uni for my child? Is one better or just choose one and go with it. Child is interested in rankings, I’m not but this is for them. Thank you

If you tell me the specific subject your DC is interested in, I can give some advice.

Probably economics or something maths related. Thank you for any advice

There’s lots to consider:

Possible grades - which unis are likely?
Subject
Campus or city?
How close to home?
Is ££ an issue (some cities eg Bristol are v expensive, some eg Sheffield have more range)
Yy rankings but tbh different uni guides rank in different ways so look carefully at that
Sport important?
Other opportunities- music? Theatre?
Near the sea?
Near London?
Cultural offer of the place?

If you can give us more detail there are lots of ppl on this board with a wide experience

https://www.thecompleteuniversityguide.co.uk/

We looked at the CUG by subject.

Ah sorry missed update

Grest unis for econ or maths:
LSE
Imperial
Bath
Leeds
UCL
Warwick

Those are looking for high grades tho so what kinds of grades are likely?

Predicted AAA.
I’ll ask all those questions as we are looking this weekend. Money is an issue. We don’t earn lots.

We cleared a few factors early on. My son was interested in undergraduate study in America. I checked that out and tld him i coukdnt afford it (thank the Lord, imagine if we'd gone with it and then Trump). My son ruled out London early on as well for personal reasons.

I did a spreadsheet comparing the top 10 universities for his subject on 3 different rankings tables, listed alongside the typical offer grades available on the department websites, then emailed it to my son, pointing out the very obvious common ground between them and suggesting he have a look based on his predicted grades.

I personally ignored the Guardian listing despite being a subscriber, as they heavily weight the 'student satisfaction' factor which I regard as worse than useless (I retrained with a reasonably recent degree so have some idea what I'm talking about).

im presuming those unis want A*. My child does well but I don’t like her having too much stress as she gets ill. Thank you for the advice

Leeds current standard offer for Econ is AAA.

You’d need at least one A* for the others on that list. Other Russell Group options to consider would be Sheffield, York, Birmingham, Nottingham, Liverpool.

I think they’re all AAA standard offer or lower. Sheffield is AAB.

Lancaster may be better as it’s very highly regarded for Maths in terms of outcomes and satisfaction. It doesn’t require A* nor further maths A level for its Maths degrees.

Have a look at what your dd might be entitled to for student finance. I'm a single parent and had no partner then, so ds got the maximum loan despite me earning over the national average. Yes its a big debt but it meant no worries in terms of affording uni at the time.

Ds has always earned a lot in the summer vacations and that has meant he's covered big expenses like when his laptop broke.

Do you have any unis nearby? I'm not a fan of living at home as such, but there's no doubt it works for a lot of people and it is infinitely cheaper.

If this is helpful, you can sort the universities by entry standards and subject. Annoyingly this one gives you UCAS points rather than actual grades but the UCAS website will be more specific about grade offers:-

https://www.thecompleteuniversityguide.co.uk/league-tables/rankings/economics?tabletype=full-table&sortby=entry-standards

Rankings for economics. I'd use the QS world rankings for economics.

https://www.topuniversities.com/university-subject-rankings/economics-econometrics?countries=gb

My own DS went to LSE for economics. If you are looking at rankings alone. The best UK unis for economics are, Oxbridge, LSE , Imperial , UCL and then Warwick. I'm biased but DS and myself feel that LSE is an amazing university that offers a lot.

For mathematics the top UK unis are Oxbridge, Imperial and Warwick.

Does your DC do further maths?

I would look for unis that have an AAA offer for economics then.

Hey @SCANDEL0US yes agree, you will need A-stars for the unis I mentioned, maybe even Leeds for econ. It’s having a moment and I know a number of YP who didn't get offers from those unis. Friend's lad with grades in hand inc at least one A-star was turned down by LSE, Imperial, Leeds.

So agree maybe look at the ones on @Donotgogentle's list.

AAA are great PGs of course but there will be candidates with 3 x A-star bidding for LSE and Imperial.

Is your DC taking FM? if not then be aware that a lot of the most popular unis really want it for maths degrees. They won't specify but most students will have it. Agree Lancaster is a good shout and Bath worth looking at (neither is RG but both are very well regarded).

Re the money, check what kind of loan your DC might get. If you are a low-income household (it does have to be quite low tbf) then they may get the max loan of about £10k. But even that will barely cover accommodation in some cities so be aware.

Any thoughts on city/campus or whereabouts in the country?

Just to build on what Clary said, some unis like FM for economics , too.

Actually I think my list was wrong and Birmingham and Nottingham also need an A* for Economics, you’d have to check OP. We had it all written down but I’ve disposed of our list now.

yes indeed I meant to say that FM is also good for economics, thanks @Piggywaspushed :)

In fact econ A level is not needed (as many schools do not offer it).

if she does not have FM then I would recommend maybe one or two aspirational like Leeds or Brum and perhaps look at some unis with lower offers that might suit.

Just checked and for BSc econ Brum wants AAA if maths is there, or A-star AA without maths. So that's a good possibility.

It's possible to find out what % of students on a maths or econ course have FM btw (I'm kind of assuming she does not do it as you mentioned AAA rather than Four A levels but of course she may have three with FM) as I would think if that figure is high it might be a real disadv not to have it.

Each of the university Guides uses different criteria for ranking. For example, the Guardian does not include academic research rankings. Pure idiocy by the Guardian, IMO, as excellent research rankings usually maps onto challenging and stimulating undergrad courses, held in high regard by employers.

So your DC needs to look at at least 3 Guides, and drill down into the KPIs in each (key performance indicators). Some are about the individual Department eg. research ranking, NSS score. Some criteria are beyond a Department's control eg. Staff-student ration - this is largely determined by how a university allocates resources to teaching.

And be aware: TEF scores are NOT an evaluation of peer-reviewed, observation of lecture or seminar teaching. It is a paperwork exercise about a university's high-level, overall framework for teaching.

The QS rankings do cover a well rounded list of components.

However 50% of the QS ranking is based on academic reputation in the form of a rather loose survey of academics. This can easily be gamed, although you cannot vote for your own affiliation. Another 20% is based on graduate employability as discerned through a similar survey of employers.

Rigorous, QS is not.

The Shanghai Rankings (AWRU) are research orientated but have solid metrics behind them. Research is also one component of the CUG. IMO the latter is the best UK specific league table. In contrast to my general reading preferences, I also rate the Times league table higher than the Guardian’s although I think there is some point to the latter’s choice of components.

OP, I would look to see which degree programmes in the CUG (or UCAS?) your DD’s PGs match well to the entering grades for last year.

Keep in mind that in some very competitive programmes, the standard offer is only made to applicants whose PGs exceed it. (I am a former Russell Group STEM admissions tutor and I highly disapprove of this practice, at least in the absence of further tests or exams)

Also, if ‘FM is strongly recommended’ or words to this effect, then applicants whose schools offer FM may be expected to take it.

Admissions tutors are generally happy to help. Your DD should feel free to email with any questions concerning FM or whatever. She can contact anyone on the admissions team and they will route the message to the proper person.

(It isn’t a good idea to ask about the ‘true’ admissions requirements as I have discussed above, however. The process I described is done by units of admission that aren’t ready to raise their entry requirements for whatever reason. This isn’t something they will discuss publicly)

Best wishes to DD

If you are very low income you might also want to investigate Bursaries/scholarships offered by Universities. My daughter used this to rule in and out certain universities, along with cost of living guides.

However 50% of the QS ranking is based on academic reputation in the form of a rather loose survey of academics. This can easily be gamed, although you cannot vote for your own affiliation.

I am one of those academics surveyed. It's a VERY loose survey. Very loose.

Basically, they email you, and then you answer a few questions which are pretty much along the lines of "Tell us which are the best 5 universities in the world in your discipline in your experience." It's really not much more than that.

And I've also been part of my department's "gaming" of the QS by brainstorming lists of academics we know internationally who might be able to register us on the QS survey, and sending them to our central admin people who collate lists of suggested experts to send on to the QS people.

I'd suggest some of the unis in the RG that are less competitive, Cardiff, Liverpool, Southampton, Newcastle and then I'd look at places like Lancaster and UEA maybe Essex. They are in less expensive cities and for the most part will not be requiring the A stars. Obviously where you are and what the distance is like for traveling may come into consideration too if that affects budget.

Another way to think about undergraduate courses is to look for information on graduate recruitment to top relevant Masters' degrees. For Economics you could look at FOI on WhatDoTheyKnow with information on applicants/offers to MPhil degrees in Economics at Cambridge, LSE etc. You can also complete the exercise with FOI requests of your own.