IB vs A level choice looking forward to uni

[Patchworkpony]

Hi, I’m putting this on here rather than secondary education as I’m interested to hear views from those who have already been through 6th form / uni applications.

Eldest DC did IB last year, strong academically and at a top uni. Younger DC in middle of GCSEs and 6th form only offers IB so needs to move if A levels chosen instead. So I have experience of IB but not A levels and worry that the relentless workload and stress of IB is making me view A levels with rose tinted glasses! I know A levels are a huge step up from GCSEs, but am I wrong to think that there is slightly more scope for school/life balance and a more relaxed 6th form experience?

My younger DC would prefer to focus on a smalller number of subjects and wants to drop English and maths so is definitely considering the options. Much as I love the IB curriculum, I am also aware of the huge disparity in IB vs A level offers between universities with some of the top ones not really acknowledging the workload and actually making higher IB offers. The IB is pitched as being more challenging, equivalent UCAS points (which unis don’t use) are much higher, but I don’t think that this translates into much advantage in reality?

Any views appreciated, especially if any parents have actually experienced both approaches with their DC?

Your younger DC sounds more suited to A levels. What does he/she want to do at university?

I agree A levels give more time for other things. DD went to a specialist school at sixth form where the A level syllabus was taught in the morning only, the afternoons were spent on dance and drama. She came away with 3 grade As in academic A levels and enjoyed the balance of academic and vocational work.

I would ask the opinion of @poetryandwine as she was in admissions at an RG, I believe.

Otherwise, if your DC would find focusing on 3 subjects preferable to 6 (plus the projects etc) then it's a no brainer, A levels clearly would be more suiting to them.

It may also be an idea to contact the admissions depts of any universities that your DC is interested in attending. A relative of mine's kid took American AP exams and approached every university they liked the look of, to find out what the dept. policy was in terms of general offers. All of them replied in some detail which was very helpful for planning classes / exams.

A levels don’t stop anyone going anywhere or doing anything. Some find A levels a lot of work but it depends on ability and how much dc want (or need) to work, and future goals. Most would not say A stars in History, MFLs and other essay subjects are easy or the hard sciences.

The best guidance on which A levels are suitable prep for an academic course at Cambridge is published by that university. It’s good advice for any academic university. It’s clearly not thinking A levels are qualifications are inferior but thinks a few subjects are!

My DDs had time for hobbies during A levels and they didn’t just study which, in my view, is one dimensional. Some A levels will even prepare better than IB but don’t assume they are a walk in the park.

If your younger one wants to drop some of the compulsory IB subjects, I don’t see any point in them doing IB, surely?

For uni in the UK, A-levels all the way. My two did IB and it is SO HARD and utterly time-consuming and yes, you’re absolutely right re university disparities between offers for IB and A-level.

Thank you for tagging me, @Flyswats

Yes, I did a five year stint as an admissions tutor at an RG university. I have a very high opinion of the IB. But a surprising number of admissions tutors are a bit wary of it. I agree that the IB entry requirements are now generally high compared to A level entry requirements. Years ago the entry requirements were aligned in percentage terms. Since then A level grades have been significantly inflated and IB grades have not.

So the only reason to do the IB is because you are strongly motivated. No one doing A levels is at a disadvantage. This DC sounds an A level (or, let’s cast a broad net and recognise that talent comes in many forms) BTec candidate.

I do think someone wishing to stop both English and Maths needs a pretty good idea of what they do wish to do, because these are two of the most facilitating subjects. Does OP’s DC have a positive vision for themselves? If not, it would be good to experiment with some of the online tools to see which attractive combinations of qualifications open doors to which careers.

Best wishes to DC

Thanks all for your input. I’m sure DC2 would do well at IB but maybe could do without the stress! They have no idea what they want to do career wise so choosing potential A level subjects based on ability and enjoyment - geography, a MFL and a social science, which I think is a reasonably complementary mix and accepted by the top unis for anything likely to be of interest.
Our previous experience of IB was that SL subjects eg maths, english and a science took up more homework time than the MFL HL and another advantage of A levels would be that the MFL would get more attention.

Thanks @poetryandwine for your perspective. I do wonder if some unis associate the IB with independent schools, even if it’s actually done in the state sector? Our previous experience was that DC1s firm and insurance required a higher IB grade as standard. The problem of course is they specify HL scores as well
as overall points incl extended essay and TOK. It’s a great course and curriculum but it’s hard not to question whether all the extra work is worth it when unis don’t necessarily appreciate it. I don’t think IBSCA are doing a particularly good job of promoting it within UK uni admissions.

Hi, OP -

I don’t know that it’s an association with independent schools that’s the problem nearly as much as the general tendency towards inertia. My university just wants the best students we can get. Towards that end we have good outreach and contextual offers policies - there is room for improvement, of course - but my point is we want the students of best ability from anywhere. And my school loves IB, having done some informal research on accomplishment. All of this is to say I think any negativity is more about laziness and British is Best than anything else.

Also, I think the British may prefer the ability to master relatively small amounts of concrete content (compared to an RG university curriculum) to the ability to analyse in greater depth which is cultivated by the IB curriculum.

The mix you give sounds very good for social sciences so if they are happy with that area A levels certainly sounds the right way to go. Best wishes to DC

thanks @poetryandwine . I have no idea at the moment whether languages, geography or social science would be of interest at uni but hopefully we’re covering the bases. I think there are a few unis that like a science for geography but that is mainly for physical geog focus whereas DC is more into human geog so I think it’s ok . It would of course be easier in many ways, including socially, to stay put at the current school, hence the dilemma.

In terms of continuity @Patchworkpony has the school made you aware that the IB syllabus has had a major revamp since your daughter studied it.
The first exams for the new syllabus are in 2025 and it is too early to know how this will affect results and uni admissions for students taking this revamped IB course.

Thanks @catndogslife no they hadn’t mentioned it though I was aware of science changes. I’ve checked and it doesn’t affect many of my DC’s subjects. A bigger issue tbh in the whole thing is likely exam timetable clashes for niche essay subjects (based on checking out 22-26 timetables), meaning 3 essay exams in a day even if over the 6.5hr threshold because it always happens on Friday and so can’t be moved to the next day !

I have a DD who has just finished the IB and one currently struggling to decide between IB and A Levels.
DD who has done the IB is a very able all-rounder who wants to be a doctor. She chose the IB because she really wanted to continue with a range of subjects. She's loved keeping up a language and history and, while she's worked hard, she's had time for a part-time job, sports, a social life etc. (And, as an aside, she's finished for the summer now while her friends are still in the middle of A Levels!) Time will tell if it was the right decision - she has a very high offer to meet and it definitely feels more in the balance for her than the A Level grades would have done.
DD2 is more humanities-focused. For her, the benefits of IB would be keeping up with Maths and retaining a language. She also loves the international focus of the IB history curriculum. But, although she's planning to do four A Levels if she does them, she's aware that IB would still be a lot more work.
I think both my girls have/had really good reasons to consider the IB and the greater amount of work it requires. But it sounds like the only benefit to your DC would be staying at their school (if that is a benefit?). From what you've said about them, I think A Levels definitely feels like a better choice.

Why 4 A levels? No university wants 4 humanities subjects.

@TizerorFizz The pressure to do four A levels seems to be coming from selective schools.

@thedoofus As a former RG admissions tutor I am certain that - to take the most extreme case - three A stars is a more favourable set of exam results than two A stars and two As.

I understand that some pupils may like the option of studying a fourth subject for one year and a small number might think that four subjects gives them a pedagogical rather than competitive advantage in their chosen subject. (No opinion from me on that). But every university in the land will make a three subject offer.

A lot of the encouragement from schools to take four exams does not bear scrutiny. DD might want to ask undergraduates at some of her preferred universities about their exam profiles on The Student Room; in particular she can ask how many exams people took.

Hi, thanks @poetryandwine. I completely agree with you and would/have encouraged her to choose three A levels. In her case, it's a state comp and it's very much her own idea because she's interested in all the subjects and doesn't want to choose between them. She's aiming for Cambridge and I have said she should give herself the best chance of three top grades, but she's not budging at the moment.
She does genuinely enjoy studying (did a class civ GCSE 'for fun' in Y10) and is very able, but nonetheless I'd prefer it if she did narrow it down to three. I guess there's time for her to drop one yet!

I have taught and examine both. My experience is that IBDP is a lot more work but that the subjects are taught at a lower level. So suitable for entry to non-specific American uni type degrees (where you only specialise in your last year).

Whereas A Levels are much more in depth in their subjects and taught at a much higher level, but don't have the added requirement of the Extended Essay, the CAS requirement, as well as TOK, in addition to the 5 or 6 subjects. So definitely much better for UK universities which specialise from the 1st year.

There is of course the difference between international A Levels, which like their IGCSE counterparts, are much easier than British A Levels. So the choice of A Levels over IBDP is still contingent on it being preferable to do British A Levels if intending to go to British uni.

I've noticed that in some parts of the world, A Levels have more status than IBDP. Not sure why this is.

Well a love of learning is a wonderful trait for a Cambridge candidate, @thedoofus, or indeed for any university student. Perhaps in a year your DD will be thinking more coldly about Cambridge admissions requirements as a regrettable necessity.

@thedoofus I wish your DD1 all the best with her IB results. I can see why your DD2 is considering the IB if she is struggling to give up subjects and wants to carry on with at least 4. However, if Cambridge is the goal I am guessing you already know that for humanities the IB offer is really high (usually 42 776 compared to a more reasonable AstarAA for A levels). It puts alot of extra pressure on exams even if that grade is achievable. We found that the external moderation of IAs and the EE was somewhat unpredictable (and this is from a very experienced IB school), so that can add to the risk even if exams go well.

@ClawsandEffect thanks for your input given your experience with both. I am a bit surprised that you think that the level of depth for A levels is so much more than for IB HL. My DC did history for example which was incredibly content heavy. Regardless, I am beginning to feel that in my DC2s case there just isn't a strong enough reason to stay with IB given that she particularly interested in carrying on with more than 3 subjects. I guess it's partly fear of the unknown...

One of our DC, at a London university, is adamant that the students on their course who outperform everyone else have not done A-levels. Most of them have done IB.

DD1 did IB. She got ridiculous offers from some mediocre universities - 38 from Aberystwyth. Cambridge wanted 42. Warwick offered 35 so she went there. Her back up was Lancaster which offered 28.

@Ceramiq How on earth do they know that? IB isn’t the best prep for some degrees either.

The IB offers do seem to vary wildly, and as you say @Patchworkpony, Cambridge seems particularly high.
I think 3 Alevels definitely seems to offer a better work/life balance. (DD1 has found it hard to learn to drive, for example, as she basically had a 9-5 timetable of lessons, with only a couple of small gaps.) Like a lot of parents seem to, I think the IB is an admirable course, but I'd advise A levels to the majority of kids in the UK system.

The majority take A levels - around 220,000. 5000 take IB where the average score is 34.7. Therefore the 50% below this level are not geniuses and maybe the lowest 25% did the wrong course and would have been better off doing A levels.

My DC knows everyone on the course extremely well! So, yes, knows where they went to school, what subjects they did at school, how they are doing now.