Firming and insuring uni offers, with the same offer, is this a bad idea?

[ShrunkInTheWashAgain]

Dc wants to firm and insure unis with the same entry requirements

Obviously the one they are going to firm, is the one they want to go to the most

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/higher_education/5312186-firm-and-insurance-university-with-the-same-grade?reply=143473342

Useful thread on this issue recently.

Ty 😀

Former admissions tutor here.

This is a sensible plan only if DC is willing to risk the alternatives. Those would be a gap year, or ending up in Clearing.

Regarding the Firm choice, recent past behaviour in admitting students whose grades have slipped below their offer isn’t a terrible guide to what is likely to happen this year, but it is very far from a guarantee. And many units of admission are fairly strict with Insurance offers. (Not all, however)

Your Insurance isn’t meant to be your second favourite choice. It’s meant to be a place where you could see yourself reasonably happy if you mess up your exams.

The problem is that many DC think now that no uni on their list meets this criterion, so they Firm and Insure equivalent offers. Then when everything goes pear shaped they realise that they vastly prefer their #3 choice to any of the options available in August. And every admissions tutor knows that you can never, ever predict whose exams will go wrong.

Sorry, OP

PS It isn’t even necessarily about pupils messing up their exams. About 80% of predicted grades are wrong, with the large majority over-optimistic. All the more reason that Insurance should provide a cushion

Think whatever you do, it's all a bit of a gamble

My dc did. She put her favourite first but our hunch was insurance was more likely to take a dropped grade. She got her grades for firm.
We just had a solid plan for clearing. There were decent unis for her subject in clearing.

My DS did this. He didn't really have any choice as all his uni's offers were AAB to ABB as tends to be the case with hums / Soc Sci. He was predicted above those grades anyway so it wasn't much of a gamble. The insurance had the slightly less preferred course and a lower bar for EPQ.

I wouldn't do this if we are talking A star offers

DD's ex BF did this and got rejected from both and ended up going through clearing.

Depends on the university. Some will make offers that are high to make them seem prestigious and worthy of putting first but are well known for dropping multiple grade if you miss your grades.

What was your plan for clearing ?

Is this still the advice even if your firm choice is significantly below your predictions? This is slightly theoretical for DS at the moment, as he's Year 12 and doesn't yet have his predictions, but because he's looking at MFL, all the advertised grade requirements for the universities he's looking at are considerably below his expected predictions (probably around 5 IB points below). Only Oxbridge and St Andrews seem to have requirements around his likely prediction, and I'm not sure he'll want to apply to any of those three.

If he gets offers around the published entry requirements, then he'd have to really mess up very significantly to miss them. Or is a university likely to make a higher offer to him than its published requirements (assuming he gets an offer at all, of course), because he's got higher predictions (assuming he does)?

This was the case with DS - predictions comfortably above what one would ever need to study his chosen subject at any uni, except Cambridge and Durham. The only issue this had for him was that the Durham offer was the same as Cambridge's and obviously there would have been no point had he secured an offer for Cambridge, of having another A star AA so he took Durham off his list. He could have added it after the Cambridge interview rounds but he didn't especially want to.

He still firmed one ABB and insured another ABB. Just because it's the done thing really.

Oh, and no uni offered him higher. His predictions were A star A star A.

Thanks, that's really helpful.

Most offers are standard, regardless of PGs. We hear of occasional exceptions on this board. More degree programmes are now making tiered offers, where those with higher PGs get the first round offers and the other applicants are put on the back burner for a while, even though their PGs meet or exceed the standard offer. I don’t think this is fair to candidates: have the courage of your convictions and raise your offer. We did that. (It’s true we had one rather lean year which no one can afford at the moment, but Donald Trump is giving us a huge gift and making it possible to compensate with Overseas tuition.)

The only problem is that about 80% of PGs are inaccurate with most being too high. IME it is most typical to be off by one grade but I am not sure what the situation is now. Factor that in.

Against this, AFAIK (I am in STEM) MFL is not the most fiercely competitive of subjects.

Oh, for a post qualification admissions system!

Super helpful, thank you!

We looked at what unis and courses were in clearing week before. Noted down course numbers and phone numbers. Had all her certificates to hand (gcse, epq, even the ballet ones in case in came to a points offer) I took day off annual leave. I’d watched clearing yr12 for her subject so had idea which tended to go in clearing.
She made her firm so it was all done and dusted at just past 8am but we felt better for having a plan.
Her friend didn’t get grades and had an online interview on clearing day and secured place on a course usually requiring several grades higher.

DD has done this but all 5 offers were for the same grades. She’s put her favourite as firm, second as insurance. If she misses and neither takes her then she’ll be in clearing, but she didn’t have much choice.

Excellent work!

DD firmed and insured offers with the same (grades A star AA). It did feel a bit of a risky strategy as her insurance uni was unlikely to drop a grade but she was confident of her grades and it paid off.
DS firmed an A star A Star A offer and insured an offer requiring just one grade less. Also a gamble but also paid off. He did not want any of his other offers including his insurance offer by the time A Levels exams came around so plan B was to have a gap year and reapply.

DS’s firm and insurance were the same. He missed by one grade. The firm wasn’t interested but the insurance took him. He was disappointed for about ten minutes, then got over himself. He embraced Leeds and had a great time there.

My DD was rejected by one uni and all four others gave her the same offer 🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️ so no choice and fingers crossed

@ShrunkInTheWashAgain my DS has accepted two MEng offers with grades Astar A A. The insurance choice said at the open day that they often have places for applicants who miss a grade or, if not, then they are able to offer the BEng with the opportunity to transfer to the MEng after the first year's exams if grades are decent. It seems to be a uni that generally wants to encourage insurance offers because they give equal priority for accommodation to firm and insurance applicants, whereas his firm choice doesn't.

DD was also a linguist. She had four ABB offers and one BCC from a uni she knew she didn't want to go to - she only put it down because there were few places that offered the joint honours course she wanted with her combination of A-levels. She chose ABB offers as both firm and insurance with predictions of AAB. She didn't really have a plan B. As she ended up with Astar Astar A it all worked out fine.