Firm and insurance University with the same grade

[Clueless888]

Hello

My DS has decided to do computer science at university. Both Sheffield and Leicester have asked for the same grades. However, Sheffield has given a contextual offer and Leicester has given the standard conditional offer.

If DS puts Sheffield has firm choice and Leicester as the insurance choice, what are the chances that DS can get into Leicester if he doesn’t make it into Sheffield? Also, he would then need to go through clearing if he doesn’t get the grades.

Would it be safer to choose a different university as the insurance choice with a lower grade offer?

thanks

No one can answer this perfectly as you just won't know until it happens!
DS had both firm and insurance as same offer for Computer Science and missed it. Neither accepted him (firm uni offered a different course which he didn't want) so he went through clearing and went to York (which was fine).

Which uni would be the lower offer choice?

Did you see if either Sheffield or Leicester had his course in clearing last year? If so, they'd likely accept him on a lower offer.
I'd be inclined to think Sheffield are less likely to lower a contextual offer further, whereas Leicester may accept a grade lower?

DC’s school said there was no point putting an insurance offer with the same grades as the firm, unless you know the insurance university is more likely to flex if offer grades are not achieved.

What were the most commonly achieved grades for CS at Leicester last year, that should tell you how flexible they were last year at least?

If you look at Leicester computer science on UCAS and scroll to the bottom, it says the most common grades last year were BBC and they are asking for ABB, so it sounds like there would be quite a bit of leeway if he didn't get his grades (you never can tell from one year to the next though, if everyone else got their grades he still might not get in).

Thank you all, I didn’t know that UCAS shows common grades for previous years.

Both Sheffield and Leicester are asking for ABB. Sheffield shows the lowest grade accepted for last year was ABB and Leicester shows the lowest grade last year was BCC.

Lancaster would be his other option, which is asking for BBC. But this uni is the one furthest away (4 hours) which is the only thing putting him off with having to travel back during holidays as accommodation is only for 42 weeks?

I'd say it's worth the risk if that's his preferred back up. Unis are crying out for students as they are losing some of the international ones and are all feeling the impact of cost of living/ students questioning if the debt is worth it etc.

However if you want to be on the safe side do some research before results days for a list of unis he'd be happy to go to if he had to enter clearing. If he doesn't get his second choice place then get onto the phone to them ASAP in preference order. DS got his clearing place by 10.30 am and they were full by lunchtime I think.

42 weeks is pretty standard for uni accomm - no need to vacate during holidays, just in the summer. So the let is mid-Sept - mid-June or so.

I would think Leicester is more likely to dip its offer, based on my experience. DD got in there on clearing well below the book offer (not for CS tho).

DS2 had firm and insurance on the same grades as he decided he didn't like the course for his lower offers. The insurance was Leeds tho so probably a good thing he made his firm offer as I doubt it would have flexed. No point going somewhere you don't want to (tho Lancaster is great)

It’s always going to be a bit of a gamble because you don’t know what any university’s recruitment policy is year to year. It sounds like Leicester typically accept much lower so they’d be a good choice for insurance, but equally if he’s contextual for Sheffield he might well merit extra consideration and admission with lower grades (he would where I work).

how confident is he of making those grades?

if they’re a stretch, it’s probably worth preparing for clearing as well, but nothing wrong with shef firm, Leicester insurance as a general strategy, if he’s not happy with the travel for Lancaster.

Hi, OP -

I am a former Russell Group STEM admissions tutor (apologies to those who ate bored of reading this).

I think your DS needs an Insurance offer lower than his Firm offer. Here are some reasons why.

First, Lancaster is a wonderful option. The university, which is part of the RG+, and the School of CS are both excellent. DS’ offer of BBC is heavily contextualised, down from the standard offer of AAB.

Second, last year Overseas students turned against the UK as the new visa regulations were perceived as hostile (even though they didn’t affect many undergraduates). This year, Donald Trump is generating much greater hostility, particularly with China, even as we write. Overseas students can still apply through UCAS, so the UK may get a late surge of Overseas students. This would raise standards for Home students.

Third, many Schools will accept more slippage in students who have Firmed them than in students who have Insured them. When my School was becoming more elite we sometimes had to take students who did not meet their offer and we gave preference to students who had Firmed us. We would only look at slippage in students who had Insured us to keep from going into Clearing, which was pretty rare.

If DS is willing to go into Clearing or risk a gap year, that makes the decision easier. Personally I think Lancaster is a fantastic option.

Also, as DS has qualified for contextual offers at Leicester and Lancaster, it is possible that Sheffield has missed his contextual flags. If he wishes to investigate this, it would fine for him to send the admissions team a very polite email saying that Sheffield is his top choice, however (some or all of) his other offers are contextual. Thus he wonders whether he might be eligible for a contextual offer at Sheffield? He understands that different universities may use different criteria and thanks the admissions team for considering his question.

No one will take offence at this. The message can go to anyone on the admissions team; whoever gets it will route it properly. I am not saying he needs to do this but he is well within his rights if he wishes to.

Best wishes to DS.

@poetryandwine it's Sheffield that has given a contextual offer unless I am misreading.

I agree wrt Lancaster though, it’s a great place to go. Interesting to read your intel about flexing for firm rather than insurance. Like I say, glad that DS2 didn't need to try as Leeds is not known for flexing haha (especially not that year – which was the year it offered £££ to students to take a gap year!).

Yes, Sheffield has given a contextual offer. DS was given contextual offers from 3 unis and one unconditional offer from Brighton, with Leicester the only one not with a contextual offer. Is it worth questioning this then?

(DS has decided against Brighton)

Thank you, @clary.

I am on a noisy train!

OP, I apologise. But your DS can write to Leicester asking about a contextual offer - just swap Sheffield’ and Leicester’ in that psrt of my reply. I think the query worthwhile as DS has two contextual offers, although that is no guarantee he will get a third.

The offer from Lancaster is very enticing!

Yes, OP -

Having read that all the other offers are contextual or unconditional, from an admissions perspective that makes a query from DS to Leicester very strong.

He should say he is writing because all his other offers are contextual (the unconditional one is in its own way).

To me it sounds like Leicester made a mistake. It happens. It’s fine if they cheerfully correct it.

If they did not I would be most unimpressed, and I say that coming from a School with a much higher standard offer than any of the ones you have mentioned.

We spoke to the admissions tutor for DS’ course at Leicester- not CS - who said they welcome applications and accept students with below ‘and even quite a lot below’ their standard offer of ABB. On the UCAS website it shows average acceptance grades well below ABB and it’s been in clearing the last 2 years at BBC and then CCC last year!

Makes me wonder why their standard offer is ABB at all! Prob trying to attract high scoring students at application stage.

I know CS is more popular and competitive than my DS’ subject so it might be different.

I agree with you, @Griffyn

Ultimately everyone wants the strongest possible entering cohorts. It is good for everyone if the cohort is reasonably homogeneous in terms of intellectual ability and core background.

Publishing unrealistic entry standards, then having to bend over too far backwards, doesn’t accomplish this.

My DN firmed and insured two offers asking for the same grades and like @SandyThumb she ended up in Clearing but all ended well and she has loved her course. Her offers though were both competitive London Unis who were never going to flex.

FYIW my husband is on the academic staff at Lancaster CS department and it's a super department. I'm surprised it's giving such low offers. An most students love Lancaster. After the first year most are in shared houses. and the 42 weeks takes you from mid September to June.

Yes we found this too. DD got in for English on clearing with BCC (book offer is ABB); the following year the course was in clearing for (IIRC) CCC or even CCD. That was 2020 tho when all bets were off and a lot of less prestigious unis were struggling as so many students had made their offer for RG (same thing happened in DS2's year, 2021).

But anyway, 2019 (DD's year) was a normal year and yes her clearing offer was lower.

That said, I do think (and have said here before! apologies if I am boring anyone ) that Leicester flies under the radar a bit as it is not RG; it's a long-standing uni with a nice uni setting, in a good lively city; good halls offer in a villagey setting (still in the city tho) a couple of miles from the main uni buildings; great diversity among the student body and what we found to be a very supportive and helpful department (can only speak for Eng obvs). I believe it is trying to get into the RG. At any rate I would rate it just as "high-ranking" a destination (if these things matter – and maybe they do but I am not convinced) as (say) Southampton or Cardiff (not that there is anything wrong with either of them either).

And yy CS is a different subject and more competitive that studying old Jane A and Will Sh.

Oh no, all the comments regarding Lancaster is making me think DS might have written it off too soon. It’s only really the distance that putting him off. He has always been a quiet, lonely type (although, I’m really hoping that uni life will bring him out of his shell a bit) So, if he gets lonely during the holidays, the 8 hr round trip might be a bit too much for him or either for us to visit him.

Another way to look at this is that DS may find his tribe at university and be much less lonely!

DS is just under 4 hours drive away, slightly longer on the train. Now he has a car he has popped down a few weekends (for events not specifically to see us!) We have also gone up a couple of weekends for birthdays.

Most students (certainly to start with) come home for holidays unless they have a job in the uni town.

DS is at a different university, but is a quiet soul but has found his tribe. Also quite happy in his own space too.

All students, but particularly the shy ones, need to be prepared to take the initiative and shape their own lives at university. No one will do it for them.

Wherever he goes, DS (and other shy students) may find it helpful to research social/ sporting/ cultural/hobby opportunities ahead of time. If the choice is tight, these may become one of his criteria.

Having a plan for some clubs and societies to investigate during Induction Week and shortly afterwards - which he will modify upon arrival, of course - will give DS a valuable sense of control.

This is such good advice! For DS2 (disorganised, neurodiverse) we actually helped him map out a timetable for his first week in terms of freshers society meetings he should go to (based on his interests) as they are all published in advance. It meant he had a 'plan' and was less at risk of being overwhelmed and hiding in his room rather than getting out and meeting people! Those first couple of weeks are fairly key in terms of starting to make new friends, as everyone is in the same position. Much harder to break into groups later in the term (but not impossible of course).

Problem with that is that it seems last years A level results were a surprise shit show for some reason. The course I teach on was in clearing for the first time ever even though we made as many offers as normal and had as many firm accepts as normal. I am not expecting to be in clearing again. So last year we were more flexible on grades that what we’re likely to be this year. Obviously if there’s a consistent pattern that’s different.