Edinburgh , Warwick or Bristol?

[clover6]

DD has narrowed down her uni options to these three choices for her firm with Liverpool as an insurance for history. She's visited them all and liked them but is still a bit indecisive so if anyone has any experience of these unis it would be much appreciated! We live in London for reference and DD is mixed-race POC and was leaning more toward Bristol/ Edinburgh any insights on diversity would also be helpful! Thank you all

Very sadly I would be considering the financial cuts of 10% pa announced by the Edinburgh VC in Feb in making my decision. This amounts to about £140M pa with the first tranche of cuts to be completed in 18 months.

A voluntary severance scheme is currently underway but compulsory severance is very much on the table. History is popular and esteemed so that’s a plus, but it doesn’t bring in much of the grant income upon which Edinburgh heavily relies - a significant minus.

My friends in a discipline that ticks all the right boxes are extremely worried about the impact on their own School. Issues like a university wide hiring freeze (into the permanent ranks), cutbacks in student and staff support, estates,

etc. Every aspect of university life will be affected.

UCU Scotland (the nationwide union) has voted No Confidence in the VC. That’s very rare. I hear that a series of strikes is likely.

All of this has been widely reported, as has the fact that Edinburgh is actually in good shape financially. This action is to prevent them running a deficit; however they are the third richest university in the UK with over £3B in reserves. One wonders what it is being saved for.

Others on this thread may counter that many universities are in worse shape and they are correct. The problem for me and for Edinburgh staff is that these swingeing cuts demonstrate a lack of respect for the people making up the Edinburgh academic community.

@poetryandwine Are not fixed assets in the £3 bn? So buildings? I think around £2.2 bn is fixed assets. They also say their buildings aren’t good enough in their financial report. They cannot liquidize buildings I think. Their expenditure is £1.4 bn a year. They do appear to be restructuring but did give pay increases of 12%.

Good point, @TizerorFizz I see the more detailed information in last year’s annual report.

UCU and the media have been quoting total reserves, not unrestricted reserves. It is disingenuous and doesn’t help anything.

However the unrestricted reserves are over £1B and the endowment is £580M. Both overall and in terms of endowment, Edinburgh is in fact the third richest university in the UK and has the finances to put people first.

@poetryandwine Yes they have a cushion of a year with no fee or research income. Which of course they will get. However if they get fewer overseas students, I imagine they need to tweak their reserves or cut courses. Nothing is a win win is it?

Indeed.

I think people tolerated the VS scheme. My sense is that need for some kind of fiscal restraint was generally agreed but the scope is thought shocking.

The comment about buildings being in a state of disrepair is apparently true and also going down badly, because so many shiny new ones have been going up.

@poetryandwine Yes. Shiny new to attract more shiny new students! It was ever thus. Consolidation might have been a better strategy.

Can you say what this is as my dd is going to apply?

@kanaka Historically Warwick had an issue with 11 male undergrads who had a group chat that discussed rape, were racist and antisemitic. This was in 2018 and the university concluded their investigations in 2021. One was exonerated and 10 had differing penalties. So its history and almost certainly Warwick will be more alive to such behaviour now. I would not base my choices on what students did pre 2018.

One of mine firmed Bristol,rejected Durham and had Edinburgh as back up (even those the offer was the same - ridiculous back up but he was so sure he would get his grades silly boy... he did get the grades). Anyway we are in London and 3 of my lawyer children chose Bristol over Durham as it is closer. My sons went to a very mixed school ie one was the only white boy in the class at one point - we are very much a minority here and his Asian friend deliberately chose Warwick as he felt it would be a good racial mix. I think Bristol is pretty mixed too and being a port has a very long history of good race relations etc.

I would probably put Bristol at the top of those 3 choices and it is a lovely city too and it is easier to get home to London.

One reason I was glad my son didn't go to Edinburgh was the course being 4 years not 3. he went on to do law after and had he had a 4th year too that is a very long period to be paying rent etc.

@Xenia DD did MFL degree and yes, 7 years until fully qualified. But you have to do what you are best at.

DD is going to Edinburgh we think as she likes the idea of a broader start to the course where she can study multiple subjects etc. and loved the city! Thank you all!

Bristol was at the center of the British slave trade, originally, due to that port.

@clover6 My DD is just coming to the end of her first year at Edinburgh and is loving it up there. It is such a great place to be a student. She was at a bog-standard English comprehensive and hasn't had any issues. DD has a mix of English, Scottish and international friends, which has really broadened her experience.

It is worth getting an accommodation application in as soon as possible as I think the allocations for students with conditional offers are prioritised within that group by date of application. It may be worth being aware Pollock Halls have a reputation for being where more of the "posh" students live. DD has been very happy in a self-catered, shared bathroom hall, which was also considerably cheaper. Good luck to your DD!

I did history at Warwick. I loved the course. First year was brilliant on campus but then living in Leamington in horrible student accommodation for 2nd and 3rd year wasn't great. Plus it was a long commute (or it felt like it). No regrets though.

I would personally go for the course. In the early 90s, Warwick offered South American history with Spanish, which I really wanted to do. I think a love of the course is vital to doing well so go with that rather than fixating on the place. Uni is an amazing experience wherever you go.

@Downwardkitty Should students avoid all cities with slave connections? That would be difficult in many areas of the world. What about modern atrocities? Should we avoid Germany? Where do associations stop?

That's a good question. I heard from an A level history examiner recently who said that History at Bristol was currently problematic as there's a lot of denial about the slavery background. My DS had applied there and was offered a spot (unconditional based on existing grades) but is going elsewhere, not for that reason, he'd already made his choice. But I thought it was interesting that it still had some kind of impact on the course / ethos of the dept.

Bristol as a city is extremely diverse and vibrant. I love it.
There is a lot of awareness of its problematic history- remember the statue of Colston being pulled down during the BLM protests. And many buildings in the city have been renamed.
The University was not diverse when it was there 40 years ago. I expect it is better now and I’d be amazed if History students weren’t aware of the city’s history.

@Downwardkitty That is 100% untrue about History at Bristol. Slavery is a first year optional topic. It’s clearly not going to be a core topic but it’s available immediately. Maybe people should read the spec of a course instead of believing hearsay? What does an A level examiner know? Liverpool university, also a city partially built on slave trade wealth, doesn’t have anything about slavery until y2. Is Liverpool criticised on that basis? Neither do I think slavery defines whether a history course is good or whether a university is good let alone whether it’s a diverse city or not.

Bristol and Edinburgh definitely still have the rep for being heavily weighted towards private school white kids. I live near one of them and whenever I go into the studenty areas it’s like an identikit community of blond tanned kids in preppy clothes with v little diversity.

I’ve always had the impression that Warwick is more down to earth. Due to work and social reasons I would say I know an equal split of Private / State families and the only students I know at Warwick have come from state school. The only state student I know at Bristol is having a miserable first year. But I think this is because he chose catered halls not knowing the nuances of what he was doing. A lot depends on the halls your dd picks - be aware of which ones may be a little less diverse.

All my DC’s Bristol uni friends were state school educated (along with Dc) . Oh, except one from a v wealthy background who had disengaged from his family, changed his name and was seeing himself through Uni on student loan and working.

The stereotype is that Wills hall is ‘posh’. Hyatt Baker was very sociable and the free shuttle bus excellent.

@RitaAndFrank So you didn’t read the % of private school pupils at each I posted earlier? None are heavily weighted to any type of background.

What most people haven’t realised is that many ethnic minority dc do like a university near home. Or can of course overseas students are in the mix too but many of them are rich as the fees are sky high. So you would find a lot of diversity at Leicester, for example, reflecting the local population, but would expect far less at Exeter Falmouth. It’s what it is. However none of the universities in the query have more than 1/3 from private schools (not that they are 100% white either) and no type of student should be shunned because of the colour of their skin or background. I always feel we need to grow up about only wanting to be with our one type. University should open minds - not confirm prejudices.

@RitaAndFrank I'm sure there is some truth in your observations, from my DC's priv.sch cohort all their mates that went to either Edinburgh, Bristol & add Newcastle to the list, were white. The black friends of same academic calibre went to Warwick, Manchester, Birmingham, Notts etc. The need to be with people who 'are like us or look like us' is innate.

None of these three universities would be considered pale and stale. In the Times Higher Education World University Rankings, all three score very well in international outlook.

https://www.timeshighereducation.com/world-university-rankings/latest/world-ranking#!/length/25/locations/GBR/sortby/rank/sortorder/asc/cols/scores

Rank - International Outlook score - International Students
29 Edinburgh 96.6 49%
78 Bristol 92.6 33%
106 Warwick 96.2 45%

Internationally diverse is not the same as ethnically diverse, OP's DC will be looking at ethnicity stats rather than foreign nationals. I think someone posted ethnicity stats upthread.

Excellent post.