Bath or Manchester

[elizbake]

My DD has offers for both for economics and politics. She liked both for very different reasons but her choice will be determined by which will be better for her career prospects . I remember not really been swayed by this when I chose where to go ( 30 years ago ! ) but she is much more focused on the long game ! Any thoughts would be useful ….

I cannot imagine any future employer looking at either university more favourably tbh. They are both excellent unis and a degree from either will be valuable.

I suspect university makes less difference than degree class. And if we are talking a top RG like Manchester and a top RG+ like Bath, the difference is even smaller.

What might be worth considering is the opportunities for a year in industry or any other links. Mate of Ds's went to Bath (studied maths tho) and spent his third year working full time which had to set him up well for future employment. Is that a possibility at either uni, for either course? Bath is well known for its links to industry for things like engineering and maths; no idea about econ and of course Manchester may also be good. But I guess it's worth a look.

Otherwise of course she knows but they are very different places - Manchester, big cosmopolitan city, good pool of accommodation, great cultural offer, north west; Bath very beautiful, smaller city, accommodation ££, south west, lovely campus, and closer to London if that's a factor.

Bath has higher earnings post course and ranked higher. Though jobs will go more on skills for the job rather than where degree from with two higher ranked universities. If she has a preference for the course or place at Manchester though go with that. Depends on job as well, things like finance Bath is strong, international development Manchester is strong. Very different places - Bath is good for sport.

Thanks for your replies . Appreciated.

Is Bath non RG ? Does this make much difference… DD worried that Bath may not be as internationally recognised ?

Again , I just concentrated on which city had a better nightlife, so I’m no use to her !

Nobody will care. They are both well regarded. She needs to focus on where she would be happiest. It's not as though she is considering LSE v Winchester (with absolutely no disrespect to Winchester, it's simply a very different prospect with very different entry requirements to LSE).

She should choose based on where she wants to live.

That said, Bath is a fairly small university, which doesn't offer arts subjects. As a result those of taking science and engineering degrees (the vast majority) looked down slightly on those taking "fluffy" humanities like erm... economics or politics. That was some years back, though, and the culture does change. The courses tend to be smaller in numbers, so your daughter won't be lost in the noise there. Her lecturers and tutors might actually know her name.

Manchester is 10x the size in student numbers - much larger city too.

It'll be a very different university experience between the two.

There are a few non RG universities in the top 10. You need to get away from the idea that RG is better.

Interestingly, Manchester is the most targeted university by employers. Not Oxbridge/LSE/UCL/Imperial/Durham, but Manchester.

Bath is not in the RG - it is one of a small group of UK unis which are not, but which are recognised as deserving of equal consideration in effect. The other RG+ unis are usually listed as Lancaster, Loughborough (yay!) and St Andrews. All four are considered as good as many RG unis (if that's a metric you want to use – I'm not a fan of league-tabling unis) especially for certain courses. Especially if you look at what we might term the lower-ranked RG unis (so not Oxford or Cambridge or Imperial or Warwick).

Yes RG does not automatically = better.

For employment and opportunities, I’d choose Manchester.

@elizbake. Bath is not RG but it’s solidly top 10. Just didn’t join Russell Group. Like St Andrews. It’s highly regarded.

I too would look at this from a work viewpoint and agree with DD. I would have a bet that more students at Bath have a keen eye on London jobs. This is where the highest paid economists mostly work. I do know that for law, Manchester university supplies a lot of lawyers in the greater Manchester area. I suspect this might be the same for economists. I think more on the course at Manchester might be local students and/or those wanting to stay in Manchester. So I would think more Bath students aim for London and probably come from there.

Both are great universities. Manchester might be better known internationally. I would look at where she aims to work afterwards and whether she’s intending to be very ambitious. Bath also has courses that encourage a year out in industry. Is she taking one? These can be very beneficial.

So some statistics regarding comparisons between Bath and Manchester;

For Economics Bath ranks #9 while Manchester ranks #18
for Politics Bath ranks #10 while Manchester ranks #19

Overall each university rank is Bath # 8 / Manchester # 22

Manchester is RG while Bath is not. But that is no longer relevant given how prestigious Bath is as a university in its own right and as others have said, its consistently in the top 10. It unusual in that it succeeds without any humanities courses and it's in a small, elegant city while Manchester is in one of the UK's largest urban areas.

We are British and live at the moment, in the US. Neither Bath or Manchester have any particular kudos within the US unfortunately. There seems to be an extremely narrow focus here, amongst academics and businesses and that's on Oxford, Cambridge, St. A's, Edinburgh, LSE and Imperial. These are seen as the top. This is sometimes regardless of ranking and regardless of subject ranks, at least in the case of Edinburgh.

My DD is doing Economics Politics, the biggest challenge is employment after and one of the best enablers / differentiators in the job market are placements and internships

Don't know Manchester Econ as well as I do Bath, but Bath claim to be very good with supporting placements etc, whereas I don't think its so much a Manchester thing

The other thing to look at is module choices, each department has academics / specialists in different areas - I think Manchester has more breadth, but I could be out of date. Having a niche subject / interest can sometimes help you stand out and improve employability

People do know Russell Group is just marketing bull and hasn't really meant anything meaningful at Undergraduate level from the day it created itself?

Economics and Politics at Bath are popular with EU students, which your DD may or may not like. EU students pay full whack international fees post-Brexit which means that those that do still go to university in the UK come from very well off homes. Bath is great for sporty young people but hopeless for those who would rather be spending time on cultural pursuits.

"There seems to be an extremely narrow focus here, amongst academics and businesses and that's on Oxford, Cambridge, St. A's, Edinburgh, LSE and Imperial. These are seen as the top. This is sometimes regardless of ranking and regardless of subject ranks, at least in the case of Edinburgh."

In Europe, King's College London (KCL), Warwick and Bath are well-known and regarded favourably by those employers/Masters programmes interested in such things. It mostly comes down to marketing - Edinburgh and St Andrews have marketed aggressively in the US.

As everyone has said, they are such different unis it’s difficult to compare.

Bath is a small campus uni. So great if you live on campus in year 1 but quite long uphill bus journey after that. It’s very strong in the subjects it offers and a majority of the students do sandwich courses where they do a placement while studying. I think that’s v appealing to employers- and good for the young person too.

Manchester is a huge city uni where a lot of the students live on accommodation campuses out of town in year 1. Those campuses (esp Fallowfield) are big social hubs. Fallowfield is also the sports campus so easy for freshers to join in.

Manchester is by far the livelier of the 2. Better for clubbing and culture. And slightly cheaper accommodation wise.

but honestly? Not much between them employment prospect wise? What kind of teenager is she? Which city/campus will suit her best?

@BobtheFrog RG means far more than marketing. I’m surprised the OP didn’t know Bath was not RG but at the same time had not realised its a top 10 university. There are very good reasons to know that most of the RG universities are ranked very highly and a few others are similar but not RG. However it’s not true to say all universities are equal but some market better than others. Northampton or Chichester for example, would not offer the same research quality or degrees that can e compared to those offered at, say, Manchester. They are just not the same and students should not be told that it’s just a marketing con.

The DD just needs to consider which city suits her best. Culture in Bath is available if that equates to arts, but it’s obviously much smaller and campus on a hill. Solidly middle class aspirational!

Thanks so much for all your replies .
I think the opportunity of a placement will swing it . We are actually from Manchester so Bath may well be a bit of a culture shock …
she plans to live in halls if she chooses Manchester . All food for thought.

She also has an offer from Kings for a slightly different course , but the overall cost implications means we have put it on the back burner .

@elizbake why choose London if it wasn’t possible financially. I’d move away from Manchester but where does she want to work? If it’s Manchester then cannot see much advantage in quiet Bath unless she wants work in the SW or London.

We are actually from Manchester so Bath may well be a bit of a culture shock

No it won't. Bath is much prettier than Manchester (and it doesn't have a Uniqlo), but people are the same everywhere.

I don't disagree that RG universities generally are more highly regarded than non RG universities languishing at the bottom of the CUG, but the narrative that young people have to go to an RG university to be able to get a good job is a myth.

As they are so different, I think in this case she should go with where she would be happiest spending 3 years. Bath probably has the upper hand as so many there so placement years but if she is driven and self motivated, she might instead be able to get summer internships. If she's interested in politics, might Manchester, as a large city, offer more opportunities for getting involved in volunteering etc...

There's no magic button to getting graduate employment just by virtue of the university you go to. Yes, it can help, but with thousands of academic high fliers leaving top universities every year, the onus is very much on what the student makes of their time at University and during their holidays.

@RampantIvy Of course students don’t all need RG universities but for these subjects it would be foolish not to for higher achieving DC for these subjects - plus the other few that are not RG like Bath, Surrey, Lancaster, Loughborough and St Andrews. It’s hard enough getting work in these fields for lots of grads.

We had the same for our DS. We also discovered that a huge number of graduates from that particular course (History with War Studies) went on to join the military thereafter, and that is not on our DS's agenda at all.

We are British and live at the moment, in the US. Neither Bath or Manchester have any particular kudos within the US unfortunately.

I would do everything within my power to stop either of my DC living in America, why would the majority of British parents give a shiny shite about kudos in America? It didn't come into either of my DC thoughts when applying to the many fantastic British Unis.

OP I have a DD at Bath in final year studying Politics and IR. She has just landed a National graduate role within Government - there were 8k applicants for 250 jobs so she did incredibly well. Bath was her first love though and she was set on going from the off and hasn't regretted it she has had an amazing few years in a gorgeous city. Manchester is far more city living isn't it - suits some but not all.

I did Economics and Politics at Bath admittedly 20 years ago.

I found the placement year (where I worked for a small corporate finance house) a huge differentiating factor in my graduate job search as I was able to get interviews, and subsequent a job, at top tier banks and management consulting where my competition was nearly all Oxbridge. Experience of many of my peers was similar.

I know it’s much harder these days to land there roles but don’t underestimate the impact a full year working can have on profile

I think if you go back to what the OP said you'll find this:

"DD worried that Bath may not be as internationally recognised ?"

So just answering that. You are really, really rude. I've not missed encountering rude English people at all. 😂