Experiences of studying abroad in modern language - too risky or a great opportunity?

[fridacakehole]

DD is going to study Chemistry & has the opportunity to take a third year in sister university abroad. Intrigued by the idea of studying in Spain, in Spanish.

She has an A in GCSE Spanish and has kept up a Duolingo streak since then

She’ll have the opportunity to take Spanish modules at uni to complement Chemistry.

Can anyone share similar experiences?
On the one hand, could be a great way to expand on her Spanish, but don’t want to risk the overall degree outcome if it’s too hard to follow the chemistry unit.

Is that instead of or as well as regular 3rd year?
I'm a science lecturer at a university where our students can do joint MFL and science. For them it's an extra year. They pick up the finals for everything when they get back in their fourth year along with those from the year below who've stayed in England.

Are the units definitely taught in Spanish. Where I am year 1 is German. But 2-3 are often in English.
How good is her written and listening Spanish?. She could test this my finding a lecture online.

Thanks both!

It’s Bristol. A 4yr MSC.
Third year can either be in industry, study abroad or continue as is. I believe that the study abroad modules don’t quite align so there is online work from Bristol to stay across it.

Her written and listening is GCSE level too.

How do they grade the year abroad?
Our joint honours students basically just need to pass their year abroad - it's not a high bar - if there's an industry option I imagine it's similar.
A few of ours say they wish they'd worked harder when abroad so final year wasn't as much of a shock!

I'd say GSCE plus Duolingo is a county mile from any kind of fluency, plus she'll have to deal with all the technical scientific terms too, which won't be in GCSE or Duo.

is it a Uni run exchange? If so, surely they'll be able to advise re language requirements.

If she does go, it'll do her language skills a world of good, but possibly not her chemistry skills/degree classification.

No experience but if the uni run it and it is an established programme I wouldn't worry. Maybe your child can talk to past students that have done it at their uni?

Bristol has a Modern Languages School including Spanish specialists. I'd suggest she talks to her Chemistry tutor about the set up in the year abroad and then see if she could have a chat with one of the Spanish specialists (in Spanish) to assess her level of language skills and get realistic feedback about where she is now and what she'd need to do to be able to manage.

I spent 3 months in a European country as part of my languages degree and being immersed in the 'other' language environment does bring your skills on leaps and bounds. I was pretty much dreaming in the other language by the time I came home and if we go on holiday there it takes hardly any time for the fluency to come back.

DS is currently in year 3 of a 4 year law with French law degree. This year he's studying law in France, delivered fully in French. GCSE level would be nowhere near good enough. He had A at A level and two years of university French, had to take DELF at B2 and he's still found it challenging. He wouldn't have been accepted into French uni without the B2 certificate.

No advice but wanted to say what a fabulous opportunity. I think I'm jaded as just back from Italy and feeling very jealous of all the young students in exchanges/studying etc

Many years ago, my daughter spent the third year of a four-year French degree in Montpellier. In some ways it was brilliant and her spoken French improved immensely - she also studied a Latin module (conducted entirely in French, obvs) and an English Literature one - it certainly broadened her linguistic capabilities! Unfortunately, there were a series of strikes by the university staff in France and at least 50% of her work remained unmarked. Sussex University tried to fight the corner of their three students but to no avail and it impacted on her final degree 😕. I'm sure this wouldn't happen today 😊

Don't under-estimate the value of a year abroad. My DD spent hers in France last year. She didn't love it (accommodation tiny, dinghy and run down, constant hassle from men, long bus journey to campus, all the French students ignored all the foreign students, standard of teaching at A level standard) but her approach to the tedious adult admin we all have to do has taken a great leap forward after navigating the post-Brexit visa process. What I hadn't fully appreciated is how much it is valued by employers. Setting yourself up in a foreign country and conducting your life in a language not your mother tongue in your early 20s is no mean feat. It sounds like a great opportunity for your DD. If she takes it, I'll wager she will speak Spanish pretty fluently for the rest of her life.

She needs to double check if the course is taught in Spanish. And if it is, is it with ‘regular’ Spanish speaking students or is it aimed at ‘foreigners’? There will be a huge difference in level and if she’s studying with native Spanish speakers, GCSE will be nowhere near enough (nor will A level).

Really interesting responses - thank you.

@mummyinbeds& @kitchenplans- this was my worry. Just not sure how much that year/content counts for and whether it’s worth throwing for the language benefits that others have mentioned.

Uni have said it is possible but was hoping to find others that are evidence of this!! I don’t want her burning out :)

From a language point of view, the year in Spain will be absolutely fantastic. Without a doubt, she'll come back functionally fluent.

It depends what her goals are. I might argue that in real life terms, being fluent in Spanish plus a 2:1 in Chemistry outweighs a first in Chem (plus GCSE Spanish which will be soon forgotten, and frankly isnt to a usable level). But career wise, a first in Chem might be essential depending on her future plans (or 2:1 v 2:2 etc).

She needs to look at the bigger picture and weigh up what matters to her. Personally, I think being fluent in another language is a wonderful thing, and I value it quite highly. If she can still get to where she wants in life, and get Spanish fluency - go for it. But at GCSE level, it's going to be a steep learning curve.

Hi, OP -

I assume the year abroad is a regular year of Chemistry instruction in Spanish, with Spanish university students (rather than something laid on for English speaking students abroad)?

I think it sounds very exciting but possibly too challenging. For context, I advised our (STEM School) students heading to North America, Australasia and Asia for a few years. (The year abroad counted as usual towards the degree)Those going to the first two destinations typically did very well. We had to discontinue the Asian destinations because they were too academically intense, even for excellent students.

My colleague advised our students heading to Europe. Grade A at A level in the country’s language was a prerequisite. And BTW, all students going abroad meet high academic standards ahead of time. Most do intensive courses in the Language Centre before departure. I am sure there is plenty of DuoLingo.

Oh, my, the struggles. We had to stop making the European year abroad part of the degree programme. This is quite typical. It can be a great learning experience and a once in a lifetime adventure. But European pedagogies are different, there is much less pastoral care, the language barrier in the classroom has to be experienced to be believed, and the risk to the degree classification, esp if this is Y3, is real.

BTW this was in a highly ranked School

I am sorry to be the bearer of bad news

I agree with @poetryandwine. That’s certainly consistent with my experience and that of my friends who did a year abroad.

I spent my 3rd year in France studying law and economics as part of a 4 year UK degree in Economics & French. We had to pass an entry exam in French as part of our year abroad ‘application’ to the French grande ecole, and on arriving in France we had to sit a further exam. It was only after passing both that I was enrolled on the course. Both exams were tough and at the higher end of degree level. My lectures and seminars were with the ‘native’ French students and we were judged equally (as you’d expect). We were marked on oral participation in seminars which meant when you presented, the rest of the class gave you a real grilling. And we had written exams every 2 weeks (on Sat afternoons!). It was brutal. Very different from the U.K. system. It would have been tough in English but doing it in French as a non-native speaker brought an extra level of pressure.

Note that this was at one of the top schools in France so was a little extreme compared to lower ranked universities.

I think all of @poetryandwine 's post and others are bang on, and agree the actual experience of studying your subject abroad in local language is fantastic with all the experiences it brings, one does need to think twice about the challenge if it affects final classification and the impact on study programme.

My DD is currently on her YA, not studying STEM and thankfully needs just a pass/fail (though her conditional grad offer is dependent on maintaining a transcript level consistent to Years 1 and 2).

Her feedback - unless the course consciously responds to its cohort mix to include non native speakers, then no allowances are made to be inclusive, slow down or even acknowledge the non-native). Her contact hours are high, but she finds the modules lack teaching lustre and it takes a strong student to stop the lecture for clarification because of gaps in understanding. Zero allowances made.

She manages due to being a strong language student who has also tutored GCSE/A level for over 2 years so she says she is just about coping vs others. Her hardest area of study is Arabic, taught from Spanish base vs her university and Middle Eastern semester approaching study from English to Arabic. Double brain fry as she calls it.

But the overall experience (for her) has been tremendous, and she believes has helped her to secure her summer internship so has been worth it.

My suggestion, finance permitting would be to take summer intensive instead. The level of entry is assessed. She'll get to be around other HE students (many from US and other international institutions as part of their programmes of study, UG and PG) and still get to socialise/play with a 25 wk intensive programme across circa half days, win win. DD came across students from all areas of study when on her intensive in 2020, not just humanities; the idea of combining STEM with language is sound (Imperial has some great STEM combos with Spanish), I can't comment on the Bristol offering with their partner universities.

Do make sure your DD does do her independent research if she proceeds, an agreed academic sign off between the two isn't enough to cover the detail of delivery, how marks are collated etc etc. And quite often there are timetable clashes, caps on modules/student numbers etc that only get dealt with on matriculation that can alter the programme make up for the incoming student.

Good luck to your DD on whatever decision she makes!

Don’t hesitate, go for it! Spain is a wonderful country in terms of food, quality of life, culture, heritage, architecture… Living abroad is a huge learning curve and will prepare her more for after uni… I did two years abroad during my degree and partly due to that have gone on to have a stellar career!

Dingy, not dinghy!! Edit function not available.

It probably depends how much work she is willing to put in during the two years before the trip to Spain.

I do about an hour a day of French as a hobby - after two years I can read non-fiction and newspapers etc very easily, understand things like voice overs on documentaries or new reports fairly easily, fast-spoken drama and film not terribly well, my writing isn't great (but then I don't really focus on it) speaking not great for lack of opportunity.

This is despite me being 58 and my memory not being what it was.

So I'd imagine your much younger DD, IF she was willing to put in some time each day watching Spanish videos and IF the uni was able to offer classes, and IF she was pro-active in joining the Spanish club/seeking out Spanish and South American students - then yes I could imagine going from GCSE to an adequate level within that time, for sure.

BUT there will be other pressures on time - work, socialising - does she want to put in that level of committment?

Having learnt some Spanish about twenty years ago it does have the benefit of the spoken language being blessed with regular pronunciation and the grammar not being too overburdened with silly rules. Also if people haven't done any language learning since the Internet arrived they might not realise that it's made it vastly easier to improve your comprehension and listening skills. When I was learning Spanish I was stuck with videos and trying to tune the radio to crackling frequencies!

I don't think GCSE is enough.
It sounds like she is about to start her chemistry course? Is there an opportunity to postpone the decision until later or to swap to such as a year in industry in the third year or to stay at Bristol.
She could see how she gets on with both the chemistry and Spanish. She'd need to continue to improve her Spanish by taking language courses at the university and perhaps doing an intensive summer course in Spain at the end of the first year.
As others have said, it depends on how it is graded too - if it's pass or fail it's not so critical (as long as she passes!) as if she'd be given a percentage grade for the year which could end up being low if she struggles with the language. If there's online courses from Bristol at the same time it could end up being a massive workload.

I did chemistry many years ago. The people who went to a university abroad ended up not doing as well as the people who went abroad for an industrial placement year. Perhaps there is the possibility of working abroad in Spain for the year in the chemical industry?
The only person who thrived in a university abroad was someone who was completely fluent in German before he went because his mother was German. He actually got better grades there than he did here.