Neurodivergence at top universities -are we seeing the stereotypical character features associated with intelligence?

[mids2019]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14506757/oxford-students-diagnosed-adhd-extra-time-exams.html

It looks like conditions such as ADHD are now quite prevalent at universities and I was surprised at some of the figures.

Is the rise of ADHD something general in society or could some of the characteristics of conditions such as this always have been with us in terms of being a product of being clever?

Absolutely agree

I couldn’t have managed at a university with one essay every 6 weeks- I’d have always left it till 5 weeks and 5 days to begin 😆. Frequent deadlines and everything being exam based made me get The Fear and actually do some work.

Yep a family member with ADHD went to Cambridge (stem subject) and found it impossible to work at that intensity for 8 weeks solid - he transferred to a RG university in Y2 and was much better having a two-week blitz (up all night etc) cramming at the end of term for a single set of exams.

I am not saying that approach is healthy! But it is how he works. Needs the deadline to be really looming to stop procrastinating.

No, you’ve misunderstood or not read my posts properly.

I provided a link to a narrative paper summarising the results across multiple academic studies, providing an overview of the fact that there is a statistically proven higher likelihood of concurrencr between high IQ and autism, and also summarises the data uncovered by genetic research which explains why that overlap exists (genetic research having demonstrated in these numerous academic studies that many of the same genes underly very high IQ and autism, explaining the clustering of a proportion of autistic people at high IQs, resulting in a statistically significant greater prevalence of high IQs in the autistic population than in the general population.

This article also explained that there is also a clustering of other autistic people at the lower end of IQ, with higher prevalence of this as well in the autistic population than in the general population (usually due to the interaction with other co-morbid neurological conditions which affect brain development adversely).

Effectively, in the general population IQs operate on a bell curve with the extremes at either end being extremely rare. In the autistic population the curve is more like a reverse (upside down) bell curve in shape.

In addition, I provided another link to one of the more interesting academic studies setting out its methodology and statistical validation of this well-documented and statistically significant correlation of high IQs and autism in comparison to the prevalence of high IQs in the general population: this research identified some of the overlapping genes which are noted to be statistically significant in causing both high IQ and autism, providing some explanation of their correlation (although no doubt many more will be uncovered by further genetic research, which is developing very rapidly).

There are many other such pieces of statistically validated scientific research demonstrating the correlation and researching these causes of it, as the narrative paper summarising recent research stated. The second paper I linked to provides one such example of the very interesting and enlightening research on the topic, although I remember reading early genetic studies on this in medical journals going back as far as 2007. There are many more, if you want to search the published peer reviewed research in academic journals which are available online.

That's what 'he said' is it? Was he able to qualify this opinion? Or the fact that he was the 'only' state educated student? Quite a remarkable cohort. If must have been very isolating. Was there a society for neurotypical state students or any additional support available to him?

Exactly this. My father, ex husband, brother are ALL very easily identifiable as ND now (dyslexia, ASD) but were never diagnosed. They have classic identifications of the conditions.

All 3 were seen as thick / unintelligent at school due to dyslexia. Ironic as DB is now a leader in his field, he just struggled with literacy due to dyslexia. DB is also classically ASD.

Just not diagnosed in the past.

Not read through all the posts here but have you seen the autism/adhd/giftedness Venn diagram?

https://tendingpaths.wordpress.com/2022/12/12/updated-autism-adhd-giftedness-venn-diagram/

Only those with autism or high IQ have ‘highly developed morals’? As opposed to immoral ADHDers (or presumably everyone else )?

This is all getting a bit much.

The Venn diagram was created by someone with a BA in Film Studies and an MA in Counselling Psychology from an unranked university. According to the WordPress article from which it is extracted, it is based on her personal research.

So, @MigratingSwans , I am comfortable concluding that she does not fully understand Venn diagrams.

Surely many mistakes have been made in the past, hurting people. Some still are. But the practice in this area is not transparent, uniform or particularly well developed.

This one is clearly not the most evidence-based Venn diagram, and I absolutely don't profess to be an expert in neurodiversity, but have seen a similar diagram which was indeed based on actual research (although wouldn't be able to find it easily, hence googling it to show an example). Regardless of this, I guess my point is that sometimes ASD/ADHD can be over-diagnosed and some 'symptoms' can in fact a sign of natural intelligence (and at times it can also be linked to previous trauma) and I thought this might apply to some of the bright people at Oxbridge who may or may not have a diagnosis. Some private providers do a terrible job assessing people and a lot of NHS organisations now insist of reassessing people as the assessments are not valid or reliable (just to be clear though, I know there are a huge amount of people really struggling who absolutely would meet the criteria for it and benefit from diagnosis and further support)

To give another view, my son has ASD but no extra exam time (his adjustment is only to be sat in the first row so less distraction in front of him) but when he sat secondary schools exams he told us that he was the only one in the ‘special needs’ room with no extra time…

However, now in secondary, the school very clearly told parents at the Welcome event that ‘extra time’ adjustments would be assessed by the school, ie even if a private report says so, they won’t automatically give it, only if really justified.
(V well known London indie boys school)

Slightly flippant observation but in DD's first term at Oxford she rang me one day while happily 'skipping' down the street saying; "It's so wonderful here I can just be myself as everyone is neurodiverse." While DD has no formal diagnosis she has ASD characteristics and was relieved not to have to mask after 13 years of conforming at school. (and clearly not everyone at Oxford is neurodiverse but it was to her a welcoming community of those with difference)

which uni has only one kid in a whole year group who hasn't attended private schools ?

Indeed that is the practice, schools won't take an Educational Psychologist's report at face value. They will run their own assessment then make an application to JCQ.

ND brain are known to hyperfocus on their subject of interest so if that one is their study subject, they are then ideal candidates/material for Oxbridge as they will live and breathe their subjects like a passion.

The JCQ require evidence that extra time is needed from school - practical evidence, not an EP report. They also require that the adaptation is used more generally - in class tests etc. So a lot of children with extra time represents a lot of hassle and extra cost for the school (and most private schools run with fairly tight margins). Exams are also designed to have adequate time to answer all the questions so extra time for most bright candidates is simply unhelpful - my oldest DC finished most of their exams early so would have had zero benefit in being required to sit there for another half hour.

Dear god. I have adhd and the thought of extra time in exams makes me want to cry! I would have finished a two hour question only exam paper in15 minutes and would sit and wait until the earliest time I could leave. Essay type papers, always had half an hour spare. This was before I was diagnosed and medicated. Average between 84% - 92% pass marks each time.

Exactly. Most people simply wouldn’t benefit from extra time.

I’m like this. Kids need earlier lessons in exam technique!

Interesting study

I have ADHD. It often means I procrastinate but I can also think deeply for several hours / days at a time & do really well with my last minute work. I can also think deeply about several things at once & am good at spotting complex paterns. In the age of AI this is actually providing a lot of value.

Our DS gets extra time and rest breaks. He has dyspraxia and a minor physical disability. He went to a state school apart from a few unhappy years at a private primary where they were not very good with even very minor SEN.

He's just taken his first exams at uni. The exam arrangements were that the extra time and rest breaks were given as one block of extra time. He's at a big London uni and there were several rooms of 20 typing exams on special laptops. It worked for him. I assume there are some students who need smaller rooms.

https://www.instagram.com/reel/DT0JAckiKez/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link&igsh=NTc4MTIwNjQ2YQ==