Durham or Trinity College Dublin?

[Delilaaaah]

DS is grades in hand (3 x Astar) wants to study History. He has an unconditional from Durham to start Sept but will have to wait until Aug to hear from TCD. He will 99% get into TCD as his points are high. He is interested in the cultural experience of living in Dublin (his DF has an Irish parent) and there are effectively no fees (£2000/year which you pay as you go - so no debt from uni fees).

However only 16% at TCD get a first whilst this figure is 42% at Durham.

He will return to London for his career after graduating (current thoughts are law or civil service).

Any thoughts?

There are a few threads about Trinity Colllege. It's not the same experience as a UK university, and student accommodation is a total nightmare. But it's a great university and those 1st are hard earned and seen as very high quality. But on the QS ratings, they are much of a muchness.

Here it is
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/higher_education/5163533-has-anyone-any-info-on-trinity-college-dublin

However only 16% at TCD get a first whilst this figure is 42% at Durham

I would see this as a good thing? Lots of info as @turkeyboots has said on the other thread. The level of students' academic ability will be comparable to your DS's grades in hand, and for those able and willing, will be putting themselves for the Foundation Scholarship papers in Y2, Laidlaw research awards and more, lots of extra stuff for History UGs to apply for. And if the preference is not to apply, then you get access to a decent study programme/contact hours where work is marked, feedback is productive and being a humanities student does not make you feel like a 2nd class citizen (DD's words, not mine).

Not fussed about QS rankings ourselves, more how successful are students in getting first rung on ladders post UG studies (or onto PG if that's their objective).

My own anecdotal experience with a DD in Y3 of 4 with a wide peer group across many subjects is that they've been pretty successful so far, including internships within the EU, US as well as Ireland/UK, lots of interesting opportunities within law and Civil Service as well as the standard corporate graduate programmes.

So much of the early application process is anonymised now, but our personal experience is that the TCD name carries strong weight still internationally and a student does benefit from wide access to Erasmus opportunities if they want it, that can offset the nightmare that is accommodation. I have zero costs during Y3 of DD's year abroad with the exception of 2K EUR for tuition fees.

It's a pain having to wait for the CAO R1 offers so late (was 8th Sept for us post covid with a 16th Sept start), but if he's able to hold his nerve and you know where you stand re accommodation etc, then he can withdraw Durham right up to matriculation with no penalties, or turn down his CAO offer and not incur TC/KC halls fees.

Good luck!

Thanks @ealingwestmum and @turkeyboots for your posts - very helpful to build perspective. TCD is his pref by far - he is currently travelling in Sth America so I have not communicated this snippet of info yet to him.

Employability is critical and I dont want this to be reduced if a first is a selection benefit the goalposts of achieving this are different in different places.

One of mine has been applying for CS this year. Recruitment is blinded and none of the schemes ask for a 1st. Appointment is based on online testing, assessment centres and possibly final selection boards (and knowledge testing) depending on the scheme. Assessors won't know which uni you attend (although might guess) or your degree class. Might be worth looking at how much each helps with employability- career fair, internships, practise testing, interviews etc. Even proximity to jobs helps.

Thankyou @PearlStork thats an important insight.

Out of interest OP did he apply to Oxbridge with grades in hand? I'm wondering the success rate for something like history with those achieved grades. I'd have guessed pretty high vs predicted grades, but a boy I know from a low-achieving comp didn't get in with those achieved grades, but that was for physics where the competition is higher.

I'm amazed that 42 per cent get a first at Durham. I went there and I can only think of maybe 3 or 4 people I knew who got one. In facts the culture at Durham when I was there was very much focussed on a well-rounded experience - the sports, college activities and societies were a big part of the experience as well as the academics. I think it's a great place, very much a student community vibe. It'll be quite different to a big city like Dublin, so I'd take that into consideration. Also, I've never known an employment decision rest on the difference between a first and a 2:1. Usually a relevant degree from a good university is fine.

@Sittingontheporch Yes he did - was interviewed but not offered a place. Also from a state school.

@newrubylane I was also surprised with that number as a first was rare in my day as well - Durham still is very focused on extra ciricular activities and we know quite a few people who have been, loved it and thrived. He said it felt a bit like a big well resourced boarding school which he might out grow.

Have you factored in cost of living? Dublin is extortionate.

Why does he have to wait to hear from TCD given he has the grades in hand? Just being curious / nosey.

I am from Dublin, no expert on the courses but cost of living and scarcity of accommodation are real issues. Unpopular to say as well but Dublin not as safe as it used to be, you can find your way around safely but the homelessness and open drug use probably a lot more than Durham.
Four year course as well (is Durham 3 or 4?), so you would need to find the money for that. Although DC would probably find work in Dublin to tide him over.

Even with grades in hand @ChangeitUp2 , each year's offers are based off that sitting year's results. So CAO legacy data can give an indication of how competitive the course is and whether your grades/predicted are in the ballpark, but until Irish Cert results are in and all data calibrated and converted to CAO points from all other academic systems in the applicant pool, nothing is in the bag. The offers roll our in rounds until all places are either filled, or for the more competitive courses, even with maximum points, a student may be in lottery, being offered their 2nd/3rd choice course (though these can get bumped back up if not all Round 1 offers accept. Some courses will not accept students below a certain level to keep a required standard.

The good news for UK/NI students this year is that A levels have more CAO points allocated this summer, making them a touch more competitive. And I may have made it sound complicated but actually it's very straightforward and meritocratic process, just late vs UK UCAS system.

Mine was a 2022 entrant, so apologies to the local people in the know if I have this wrong.

And yes, Dublin is very expensive with accommodation stressful to obtain.

@ealingwestmum Thanks that is a clear explanation. We looked at TCD initially but were put off partly by the course being 4 yr and by the fact 3 choices of major needed to go on the application (kid has singular focus). I had no idea about this kind of waiting time, it would have been the nail in the coffin, if we hadn't already nailed it shut.

That's fair @ChangeitUp2 , I don't think all things considered, it does make sense for all courses at all. In DD's case being a language student, all options would have been 4 years for her. Yes she's missed out on SF, but the offset has been straightforward Erasmus process for 2 countries in Y3 and tuition fees of 9K EUR TOTAL across the 4 years.

Study Abroad is widely encouraged for those applicable, course/transcript grades permitting and for those wanting Industry Placements, it's been a good geographical option due to many corporates having presence there, vs the scrum in some locations of UK.