PSA: Edinburgh

[poetryandwine]

Prof Sir Peter Mathieson, the Principal of the University of Edinburgh, announced to the University community on Tuesday that savings of £140M pa (10% of annual expenditure) must be found commencing immediately. He said further that this amount is very unlikely to be found through the current Voluntary Severance Scheme and that Compulsory Redundancy is not off the table.

Not all savings will be funded through a reduction in staff. Estates, efficiencies and other savings were also mentioned; however staff reduction seems to be the primary savings mechanism. For context, Newcastle has equated £20M pa of savings to 300 jobs.

Edinburgh is one of the UK’s richest universities, leaving out Oxford and Cambridge (or more specifically, the combined wealth of their Colleges) and has over £3B of reserves. Thus far Sir Peter has declined to touch these funds.

If Sir Peter does not relax the goal, it will be difficult to imagine the scale of the upheaval Edinburgh will undergo over the next few years. I imagine it will emerge more or less intact and hopefully with the core of excellence on which its well deserved reputation is based. But anyone considering beginning study there in the near future should be aware of the very deep planned cuts which are bound to affect every aspect of their experience.

If the cuts are relaxed or reversed I am very likely to hear this and will post the good news.

I'd worry if student support is cut as Edi is already very hands off.

DD back for her last year after a year out and has noticed less module choice already. I visited during reading week and number of international students didn't look less than usual around the uni area but hardly scientific. Did notice some very expensive capital projects have been completed (interdisciplinary futures building). What reason do they give for not touching capital reserves?

Interestin, @PearlStork

Sir Peter claims that declining international enrolment is a factor. Then again, it is an issue everywhere and no one else has announced cuts on this scale.

I agree with you about the capital projects, but again that’s been happening everywhere - and, I suspect, causing a fair amount of trouble. TBF UK universities were in pretty bad physical shape before fees were tripled, but it was a feeding frenzy afterwards, and unsustainable absent the rosiest of economic models. Lots of irresponsibility all around, IMO.

At least the new construction in Edinburgh is nice, on the whole. There is some very faddy/shoddy stuff dotted around English campuses, erected in the last 12-15 years, that is already aging badly in terms of both style and wear-and-tear.

I don’t think Sir Peter has said much about why Edinburgh are not dipping into reserves. VCs never do, or they make bland statements about Fiscal Responsibility. It says a lot about their true priorities

Hope the scale of teaching cuts isn't huge. DD has had some amazing lecturers (social science). She's found where they combine large groups of different students (postgraduate, undergrads and intercalculating medics) on one module to save money less successful. Similarly when the use an engineer say to teach R programming to social scientists.

I'd worry about more strikes which are miserable for the students (although I have sympathy for the staff and worry about future academia - in DDs year it's for rich kids only whereas in my day it was for the smartest regardless).

And not looking good for Dundee either
https://www.thenational.scot/news/24963315.dundee-university-handed-15-million-emergency-loan/

Thank you for the link, @AelinAG

I think it must be the case that this will be followed by other loans. However I am in England and it is harder to imagine here

@poetryandwine For a Y13 student hesitating between an offer at Edinburgh and an offer at St Andrews for Physics, what would you advise?

Hello, @ceramiq -

Before Sir Peter’s announcement this would have been an interesting question.

Firstly, I always think it is important for YP to feel a sense of agency over the choice of university. If one place beckons very strongly and the other feels flat, nothing can compensate for that. Life at either place is likely to fulfil expectations. Luckily these are two sound choices.

Beyond that: interestingly, even before the announcement St A’s Physics was rated more highly than E’s in the undergraduate-focused league tables. The teaching and learning experience and student satisfaction are more highly rated. Feedback is much more highly rated, but part of that is surely down to the recent marking strike at E, which is still playing out in the National Student Satisfaction Survey. OTOH, the feedback rating at St A Physics is objectively exceptional (feedback ratings are generally low) and this is consistent with the St A reputation.

St A is probably the UK university with the strongest undergraduate focus and the School of Physics appears to be no exception. It has an ethos similar to the elite four year colleges in America, which can be as competitive as the top of the Ivy League and are thought by many to offer the best learning experience there. There is no doubt that a strong graduate will be well prepared for whatever next step they wish to take, and that the brand has good international recognition.

The relative (hardly desperate) weakness at St A Physics is research. The intensity is strong - ie people engage - but it is not nearly as exciting as what’s going on at E, where Physics research is a great strength. Honestly, though, cutting edge Physics research isn’t accessible to undergraduates anyway. Much better that they should learn undergraduate material properly and prepare to go into a stronger research environment for postgraduate study if they like. (I think an MPhys from St A is fine, but getting an MSc elsewhere might be a bit more exciting).

The academics at St A are likely excellent supervisors for UG and MSc projects and dissertations, because this is the kind of thing the university really values and there is lesser pressure on their own research. ( I worry here about sounding snobbish, but there is a world of difference between undergraduate/MSc and doctoral/academic research in much of Physics and Maths)

None if this is to diss Edinburgh Physics! Before the news this week, it also would have been a very good choice.

Now, however, who knows what will happen at E? Following the news of the loan to Dundee I wonder whether Sir Peter has decided against this, or if it is a possibility? Absent a loan we can expect further modules restrictions as @PearlStork has discussed, spending deferrals and likely strike action. Unless the YP has their heart set on E, I would strongly recommend St A.

With apologies for the length

@poetryandwine Please don't apologise for the length - your reply is fascinating and very helpful and I am extremely grateful for your taking the time to reply in such detail.

Place marking

What is concerning is that Edinburgh is one of the universities best placed to weather the forthcoming financial storm.

St Andrews is also one of the better placed universities but it also has its share of financial woes - https://www.timeshighereducation.com/news/york-and-st-andrews-latest-post-multimillion-pound-deficits#

The option of choosing between Edinburgh and St Andrews for Physics is one of the least concerning choices at the moment.

For the vast majority of people on this board, the decision whether or not to accept an offer from a university with publicised financial woes is one of the very most concerning choices right now.

@Ceramiq, that is exactly what I am saying.

(My apologies, I should have been clearer. I didn't realise that English was not your first language.)

All universities are experiencing financial difficulties at the moment. A small number of universities have significant financial reserves.

Edinburgh and St Andrews would be two of the least concerning options.

English is my first language. You were not clear. I also disagree with your point.

Thank you for the link concerning St A finances, @Sapienza

Apparently about £4.4M of the deficit is structural or recurring, and the claim is that about £9M is down to capital projects or one off expenditures. There is an unexplained implication that this is relevant. It seems a bit superficial to me.

St A emphasise that they currently have no plans for contraction along the lines of Dundee (£30M deficit, strike action about to begin) or Edinburgh. Obviously all such announcements should be taken with a grain of salt.

However it may be worth considering the brand of each university. St A is mostly about teaching and learning. It is claimed that although Overseas PG enrolment targets were not met, Overseas UG targets were exceeded by about 90. That was most impressive last year, and that was the reputation doing its job. The Research Excellence Grant and other research grants from the Scottish Funding Council are relatively small; Teaching&Learning is where StA is invested and what it will protect when the chips are down, IMO.

OTOH Edinburgh is awarded over 1/3 of the entire Research Excellence Grant for the whole of Scotland. The teaching is good but the real income is in research ( that block grant is only part of it). Redundancies will need to protect research income.

I think E will pay what attention they can to teaching, but I expect more Teaching Fellows, a number of whom may be on undesirable contracts, higher teaching loads for everyone, fewer choices for and investment in undergraduates, etc. Student support is usually cut in the name of efficiency and I agree with @PearlStork that this would be bad news.

I think the choice between these two is currently rather stark and rather sad, given E’s history.

E is actually the 3rd richest university in the UK after C and O ( including College wealth) so the whole thing is difficult to understand.

OTOH Glasgow University is thriving financially. Its surplus has been shrinking over the last few years but is still well into 7 digits. One more reason to like it.

Glasgow is almost certain to encounter financial issues this year as it has also experienced a significant decline in international students.

More concerning still is whether Glasgow will even be allowed to continue to recruit international students as it failed a compliance audit last summer.

Thanks, @Sapienza

Glasgow themselves are at pains to characterise this as a warning rather than a failed audit. The university is coming to the end of a three month formal improvement period during which they were to address the issues raised by UKVI.

It seems to have brought the trouble on itself by failing over time to invest in sufficient staff to process and monitor Overseas students. A shocking and self defeating decision.

My understanding of UKVI policy from my work as an admissions tutor is that the ability to host Overseas students will be withdrawn only when there is a threat to immigration security, though I expect repeated serious warnings might also suffice. However if Glasgow is nearly, but not quite, in full compliance after 3 months of hard work they may well be given a bit more time.

https://thetab.com/2025/03/03/your-degree-is-next-protesters-criticise-edinburgh-universitys-budget-cuts

Protest posters around campus according to DD.