Uni dissertation problem

[BellissimoGecko]

Dd in third year, doing joint honours, decided to do full dissertation (options were full diss or half diss + another module).

After a couple of weeks DD decided to change to a half diss. The system allowed her to change, and she checked with her diss supervisor that she could change, plus another staff member. They all said she could change.

Five weeks later, she's told that she can't change to a half dissertation as she's doing joint honours.

Dd is distraught as she has spent three weeks doing new module and has now lost five weeks of diss reading time. She had a meeting with the heads of both subjects, who were v sorry that dd had been told wrong info/been allowed to change diss options, and they said it will be v hard for her to catch up now.

Where does dd stand now? I want her to complain now and ask for some lenience in marks as this situation is not of her making and the same has happened to other students. Dd doesn't want to complain more in case her diss supervisor is prejudiced against her.

Dd has been told she can have a 2.5-week extension and will still be able to graduate in summer. If she has a longer extension, she will have to graduate in winter, and she doesn't want that.

Anyone in HE - can you advise me/dd? I'm cross that dd has been wrongly advised. This situation is not her fault. She's concerned that it will affect her final degree - the dissertation is 40% of the mark.

Thank you!

I'm perplexed that they only got their dissertation questions approved after Christmas. Is this common in universities? What were students doing between september and Christmas?

Not in mine it's not. Timescales will vary by subject but for mine they submit a proposal in September and we approve them in the two weeks after.

I'm also confused about whether the topic for the dissertation changed when it was decided it had to be full not half. Poor that it's been so confusing. We tell our single and joint honours students exactly what they can do and it's all in a booklet so clearly stated.

Yes, but actually thinking on it, as one of the PP’s said, she has still been doing the half dissertation. Which was presumably on the same topic. So half of five weeks is 2.5 weeks. So it’s stressful and annoying but actually I am not sure what else can be done without delaying graduation.

They’ve given her back the lost time - 2.5 weeks. She needs to focus rather than wasting time complaining.

Thank you to those who know about university processes and procedures for commenting.

To those who have queried the number of weeks dd has lost, who have told her to suck it up and get on with it, and to those who have no idea about uni processes, your replies have not been so helpful.

You seem very angry, OP.

I agree your DD needs to get on with it, and the emotional energy she expends fighting for justice will detract from her work.

She could make a request for mitigating circumstances. This could mean if she’s a borderline case the uni could bump her up.

It is unfortunate but missing 2.5 weeks is pretty minor. If she makes a big fuss, that is what everyone will remember later. If she cracks on, she’ll be remembered for being resilient after being treated a tiny bit badly.

She needs to read and reference about 100 books/journal articles etc for a full dissertation, half that for a half.

Dd thought she'd have half the amount to write, so has been working on other essays etc over the past five weeks. I'd she knew that she had the full dissertation to write and refs to read, clearly she would have prioritised this.

DD's organisation and work ethic are not being questioned here.

She is not wasting time. I am posting here to find out what options she has.

They can’t give her a longer extension if she wants to graduate in the summer because her diss wouldn’t be marked in time for her degree to be classified.

I would get her to crack on, but also make sure she gets written confirmation of the mistake/ keeps email exchanges etc. Then, once she gets her mark if she’s border line eg btw a 2.1 and a 1st or gets a mark that is very out of line with her typical performance then she could try appealing it. You are typically not allowed to appeal specific marks, but the situation might mitigate this regulation.

I don't really care how the uni remember her after she graduates. I care about her getting the degree she deserves. I care info being correct so that other students don't go through the same.

Do you have a child at uni? I wonder if you'd be so sanguine if the same had happened to your dc.

She will be fine! She was doing a half diss anyway so she just needs to extend the scope of that question OR write more on the scope She already has.

The research will stay the same and she has already started that for the half diss, and tbh once she gets going, she will probably appreciate the extra word count. Every essay I've ever done (just done a 4 yr undergrad, currently doing an MA) I've stressed over essays, then got stuck in and thought, fuck I could do with an extra few thousand words. What's the difference on word count? 5k vs 10k? Very easy to pick up.

10k vs 20k or more is a bit trickier but she can extend the original proposal by tweaking the title. Presumably she would have had another module and essays to do for that, it just means switching the focus. So if she had a 4k essay for other module, now she uses the time the 4k would have been written to do the diss.

The uni has given her the time lost back. To be fair they can’t give her more time than others.

I suspect your DD has been blindsided by this. She'd obviously chosen to change from the full to the half for a reason and it must now feel like n even bigger hill to climb having to do the full dissertation reluctantly when her focus was elsewhere. If she's anything like my DD she'll be stressing and venting to you. I'd be angry too and wanting to fix everything for her.

Might your role be better played talking her down out of her tree, so to speak? The sooner she can accept the change and see more calmly and clearly, the better she will do. It doesn't sound like there is anything additional the university can do to fix things from what they have offered already.

Let's not forget your daughter is in her third year, she is an adult. It's her course, her dissertation, her loan, her issue and it has been addressed by the uni.

So if she spent 3 weeks on the other module how has she lost 5 weeks reading time? Sure it’s 2 weeks

if she’s been given an extra 2.5 weeks then where’s the issue?

40% of degree class for DISS is huge (my DDs counts for a sixth). Could she take the 2.5 week extension and see how it goes. One of mine started and abandoned 2 DISS topics during covid. I suspect they were kind to him in the end as they might be for your DD. It might be useful practise for the world of work where because of overruns etc you end up cutting corner and skim reading/using AI summaries etc. Would be a good example for an interview.

I'm not sure what the discipline is, but I've supervised lots of dissertation students in social sciences. I can't say I check how many references someone has, as long as it's more than 20 ish. I'm not looking for amount that's been read. I'm looking for quality and clarity of argument and evidence of critical engagement with and good understanding of the sources that have been referenced.

If I were in your dd's shoes I would be more concerned with the availability of the supervisor and making time to share and get feedback on a plan, and then feedback on a sample section.

Let's not forget my h and I have paid for the course, like I said.

I know dd is an adult. Doesn't mean I don't want to help her!

Dd has to reference a certain number. I was amazed as I think she has to mention far too many, but them's the rules.

Mistakes unfortunately happen but it sounds like the university are holding themselves to account and offering a couple of very fair options.

This, in a nutshell.

It's frustrating but your DD needs to think about the end result and the most effective way to get there.

Hi, OP -

Survivor of many Mitigating Circumstances Panels in my School here.

I am sorry this happened to your DD but I believe she should think through her options.
Is the usual deadline before the exam period, or during it? Where would the 2.5 week extension take her to with respect to the exam period, and where would the 5 week extension take her to?

If the dissertation is meant to be finished before exams, which is typical, DD must weigh the stress (which she cannot fully appreciate yet) of finishing it up during Reading Period and/or exams, cutting into the exam preparation.

If the 5 week extension takes her beyond the marking period for exams, it may not be physically possible to have her dissertation read by 2 people (usually required), organise a viva if required, and get her mark in before the Exam Board to say nothing of the School’s deadline with the Registrar. Then she would not be able to graduate on time, and the only blame would be attached to the original mistake.

I often think students have good reasons for appeal, all the way to the Office for Students, but I am fairly confident the OfS would go with that principle. (Of course, I don’t know the timetable for DD’s dissertation. I am only offering a plausible explanation based on what you have written)

I think that mistake was fairly serious, but I am not sure what anyone can do about it that hasn’t been offered. As to whether it would be a good idea to submit a Mit Circs petition - it depends. The bottom line is that it can’t hurt. I think it will depend on whether the reg about not doing the half dissertation whilst on Joint Hons is clearly laid out in the Student Handbook or similar (usually an online doc), and, if it is, what the School culture is around student responsibility for knowledge of the Handbook.

I would not worry at all about this episode impacting DD’s relationship with her dissertation supervisor.

An undergraduate dissertation is only about 10,000 words. I wrote mine in 3 days and got 96%. Admittedly, that’s a bit extreme, but if it’s any consolation, there will be lots of others who haven’t started yet.

Agree it's the university's fault that she was wrongly advised but in summer they have very little leeway with timings. If she wants to graduate with her friends her extension time will be limited. Can she see how she gets on and opt for winter graduation if her progress is badly impacted? Does she have many exams to revise for? I'm assuming not given the dissertation weighting so that's positive

I see that @CerealPosterHere uses Chair’s Action to get some students through late, because Midwifery students can’t count on getting the required numbers of births ahead of graduation.

I wonder if that is special dispensation for Schools known to have graduation requirements beyond their control? We’ve had students need dissertation extensions to cope with the effects of chemotherapy, the shock of losing a parent to suicide, etc, and it has always meant delayed graduation.

Granted these issues were not caused by mistakes on the School’s part, but IMO the moral considerations owed to these students and surely others are at least as great as what’s owed to OP’s DD. In her case I think the possibility of chair’s action is, if a 5 week extension is physically possible and DD persists, likely to come down to the School’s view of whether DD should have known she was requesting a disallowed combination. That is impossible for an outsider to assess.

I am not sure this is the best path however. I personally would want more calm and clarity as soon as possible. I would take one of the reasonable options offered, probably (as a conscientious student) delayed graduation, and get on with it.

Sorry, not read the full thread in detail as I'm trying to type this before my baby wakes up, but I work in university course admin and we would probably get what is called a 'special scheme of studies' approved in a situation like this where there has been some mistake on the part of the university. This involves getting formal approval for students to study something that is outside what is laid out in the programme specification, so for example if they were mistakenly registered on a module which is not actually part of their programme. If the university would allow this, it is potentially a solution that would avoid any delays to her graduation. Unfortunately different unis and courses work in different ways, and it would need to be demonstrated that the learning outcomes of the course have still been met, so may not be possible, but could be worth pursuing. I would recommend she enquires through the administrative/student support side of things as academic staff are often not aware of the processes and procedures that can apply. I would also advise her to contact the uni's student union as if they have a good team of advisors, they should be able to help. It can all be very difficult to navigate and find the people that are in the know who can help, so unfortunately in the meantime she is probably best assuming what she has already been told will stand and trying to catch up

This is a great idea, if it is not too late. Wish admin staff had thought of this sooner