Nottingham University - what is going on with the League tables?

[BobtheFrog]

Like a few others in this forum, my young adult has just finished their Year 13 mocks and didn't get the grades they had hoped for. Firm and Insurance choices remain unchanged but we have been considering some more modest alternatives

• digging around was surprised with Nottingham data, it had the biggest drop in applications in 2024 of any uni (-3600) is sitting around 60 with the Guardian and even #30ish with CUG and Times. Not long ago I would have expected mid 20s

Anyone know what's going on?

Interesting thread, thanks folks - so it seems that fashion (and possibly fear, maybe even based on 1 very unfortunate incident) is behind at least some of this. Still amazed at the dip in 2024 'end of cycle' numbers though

Personally I can see little reason to exclude Nottingham, it has a good course and decent employability - and the main campus is lovely

This crime data (below) is interesting and matches my perception of things - though I don't think I realised how high the robbery / theft from person rate was at London Unis, even though I work there a lot, and often stay in Uni accommodation in London
CUG Uni Crime Stats

I went into Nottingham city centre yesterday in the first time in a couple of years and I was taken aback at how rubbish it was. I was there at 10am but it still felt grim and even unsafe. There were three police vans parked on the pedestrianised Clumber Street.

I had just been to Newcastle city centre a few days ago as my dc is at university there and it was vibrant and thriving.

Dd went to UofN.

Loved it. But can't comment on pastoral support.

She's carried on post grad there.

It's a lovely campus and the course was what she wanted (dual honours).

I agree that the open days weren't great tbh.

I think it's very likely that the horrific murders have affected applications.

However, education - all types - is cyclical.

In dds cohort most kids were from london/SE.

Oh, and lack of international students of course.

I had 1 at Nottingham,1at Lancaster and 1 at Leeds . Leeds and Lancaster were much nicer cities generally. Nottingham was Meh in comparison.

How many students choose a uni based on a city centre though? Or incorrect talk about drugs? Most students know cities and some students take drugs but they have no idea if it’s widespread. It’s all mostly chat and uninformed ideas.

The course and uni should matter far more and getting a job afterwards. Does anyone avoid Oxford because it might be confused with Oxford Brookes? That’s almost laughable! Or Leeds because Leeds Beckett is nearby or Sheffield because of Sheffield Hallam?

League tables tell you something but so many unis are very similar. Few employers are going to exclude Nottingham grads and prefer only Sheffield ones! Sixth forms tend to get a head of steam about avoiding and going to the same ones like lemmings.

Is Loughborough really better than Durham? Or Surrey better than Edinburgh? Glasgow is one place above UAL! This is from CUG and it’s dubious!

I am a little confused. You imply that the rankings are dubious but you use them as evidence of some universities falling from grace. Nottingham, Liverpool and Newcastle I think. Are they a useful source for decision making or are they not? Is it more sensible to look at reputations for specific courses? In my area of work I would take a Sheffield engineering degree over a Nottingham one for example.

They yoyo. They are lower and then they go up again. Newcastle is actually going up. Sorry for being imprecise. Most people know it’s cyclical and employers don’t take much notice of Surrey being above Edinburgh for example. How can it possibly matter? Mostly it’s more difficult to get a place at Edinburgh so what does that tell anyone about an individual? Not much about ability to do a job. So the tables are a guide but they do keep changing and there’s no long lasting reason why the ones below the elite are where they are.

As for engineering, DH did engineering at Sheffield. He’s happy to look at anyone. Mainly because many universities have first class courses and produce grads who can be great employees. He would not base decisions on unis or everyone would just want Imperial grads which is obviously ludicrous.

How many students choose a uni based on a city centre though?

Loads do, if everything else is equal. Some courses are pretty similar, especially if they are accredited by a professional body, so a young person might dislike Manchester and prefer Newcastle for example.

Some students prefer a campus over a city or vice versa.

Thank you Tizer. This is all quite new to me and it can be confusing. DC are both at selective London day schools and Newcastle seems to be quite in vogue at the moment!

Some of it is the catered accommodation

I can't deny that this did put DD off a little @Piggywaspushed
A student was showing us around the accommodation on the main campus and I asked if there was any self catered. He looked at me as if I was mad and said that only the post grads had self catered.

We didn't know at the time that there was another campus with self catered accommodation, but DD didn't follow it up as she had her eye on elsewhere.

DC are both at selective London day schools and Newcastle seems to be quite in vogue at the moment!

@Purrsuasive Newcastle is a brilliant city to be a student in. The city is compact and is within easy reach of Tynemouth. Jesmond, where most students live after leaving halls, has a lovely vibe. DD did her undergrad there and stayed for two years afterwards to work. Last time I looked Newcastle had about 24% of privately educated students.

Jesus Christ. What snobbery.
Nottingham is 30th and Trent 45th in complete university guide this year. They are hardly opposite ends of the scale. No one needs to worry that someone might think they went to Trent.

My son was put off Nottingham on open day because the on campus accommodation is catered, they need to update that. The other issue is that his department was on the secondary campus that felt like a rather dead business park.

Nottingham Trent has been excellent for my other child who is pursuing a vocational degree course. Not affected by strikes at all, emphasis on employability, and very vibrant in feel.

I'm not defending it, just trying to explain how it may be seen. Trent became the go to place for BTEC students when DD was in sixth form. There were good reasons for this, as they did good vocational courses, and got good student feedback, but it did mean that students wanting more traditional or academic courses chose to go elsewhere.

Jesus Christ. What snobbery.

Of which there is a lot of on MN @DrAnnaTaylorRyan

My son was put off Nottingham on open day because the on campus accommodation is catered, they need to update that.

I agree. See my earlier comment.

So no one went to Manchester in case people thought they went to Manchester Met? Or Liverpool because of John Moores? Or Sheffield, or Leeds, because of Hallam and Beckett? Or Birmingham because of City or Aston?

I really don't think that this was a general phenomenon. Nottingham Trent is an excellent post-92 uni. Uni of the year several times recently.

I think it’s a shame students don’t like catered accommodation. It makes things very social. Young people are weirdly fussy about food.

OP you may not be convinced about the impact the incident which you describe as ‘unfortunate’ had on admission applications but I have no doubt that was the case. It was horrifying for many hundreds of people who knew them, their friends and family. It is no surprise that applications dropped. It’s a fabulous university and I hope it recovers from this.

Ds for uni of Notts will not choose catered halls and I definitely think it is in an issue. However the non catered halls are only 10 minutes walk away so absolutely fine. It is interesting re Trent and unconditional offers, ds24 got 3 A* at A level, got an unconditional from Trent and chose it over other Russel group unis. Sometimes it is best to be where you fit and not base it on rankings.

Nottingham still very much the uni of choice here, many kids only applying there or a combination of notts and Leeds. These accounted for nearly half the kids in the year. Other popular one is Birmingham with increased numbers to Sheffield and Liverpool

My DD is in her second year at Notts and we went to visit her this week, and met up with her boyfriend's parents for dinner in the centre. I didn't see a single police vehicle, felt very safe and we had a fabulous walk in Wollaton Park and trip pootling in the city centre on Weds.

The tragic stabbing of the students could have happened in any student area in any university town...I'm sure it put some people off, but rationally, it was a very tragic incident that wasn't Nottingham specific.

DD is really enjoying her time and found the catered halls to be a brilliant way to meet a wide variety of people.

A friend of mine got shot at in Nottingham 30-odd years ago. The police weren't interested as he didn't actually get hit by the bullet!

I think it’s a shame students don’t like catered accommodation. It makes things very social. Young people are weirdly fussy about food.

I disagree. I have heard that the catering at Nottingham isn't great. DD is vegetarian and an excellent cook. Why would she want to eat mass produced, unimaginative indifferent food at times that don't suit her when she could make much nicer food at times that do suit her?

Catered accommodation is fine if you can't or won't cook and are happy with not great catering. It has nothing to do with being fussy, but having higher standards.

Catered accommodation is also usually very expensive.

Dd was in catered for the first year and hated it. She thought it would be an easy option and it did help her to make friends more easily but the food itself was awful and she really hated not being able to make her own things to eat (we actually ended up buying her a toaster and small bits and bobs for her room even though I think officially you aren’t meant to do this). Most of the people who were in catered halls wanted to swap to self catered fairly quickly but couldn’t.

Why would you DD have a toaster in her room @Pigeonqueen? all the catered halls in Nottingham have pantries with sinks and microwaves and plugs etc? Why would she not keep a toaster in there?

Not a clue. I think she just wanted to have her own one in her own space so she could make breakfast or a snack in her room. I don’t think she liked having to be social all the time (she’s a bit introverted like me, although she enjoys her friends on her terms).