Nottingham University - what is going on with the League tables?

[BobtheFrog]

Like a few others in this forum, my young adult has just finished their Year 13 mocks and didn't get the grades they had hoped for. Firm and Insurance choices remain unchanged but we have been considering some more modest alternatives

• digging around was surprised with Nottingham data, it had the biggest drop in applications in 2024 of any uni (-3600) is sitting around 60 with the Guardian and even #30ish with CUG and Times. Not long ago I would have expected mid 20s

Anyone know what's going on?

The drop in applications I suspect was linked to the fatal stabbing of Nottingham students in the previous year.

UoN is doing quite well in World University rankings, so I would take league tables with several pinches of salt.

I worked there, hence my name change, still have friends that work there. HE is going through a huge crisis currently.

Like many Universities they have financial problems and are offering severance to staff. I think the awful attack on those poor students and the Janitor that were killed in Nottingham may have put some off, not the University itself but the actual city.

They may have also just sat on their laurels a bit too much which is what a lot of established RG Universities tend to do. They are competing with other Universities who cannot do that.

I know a few young people who went to Nottingham. Pastoral/wellbeing is not good there and maybe word is getting round.

Both of my kids went there, youngest graduated last summer. They both had the best time with no issues at all. I know nothing about the pastoral side of things as they were lucky to breeze happily through it all.

I am sure the murders have had an effect on application numbers.

Their recruitment plummeted as a result of the tragic murders - parents/young people getting nervous I guess, thinking it's rife with knife crime, particularly in the student areas. Which of course is completely incorrect.

Apart from the affect of the tragic murders, I do think that places go in and out of popularity. A few years ago Nottingham was by far the most popular destination for kids in my area (both unis). Leeds was the popular destination 3 years ago for my son’s year group, whereas when Dd was starting a few years before, she didn’t know anyone else going to Leeds.

All big cities will have problems with crime but some are more publicised than others.

My dd is doing her masters there, having just completed her degree there. So this is her 4th year there. It’s changed a lot since her first year. It’s quite a rough place now. I worry about her living there now. Regular stories of people being stabbed, mugged, more so than other large cities (and I say that as someone who lived in Brixton for years). She lives in a shared flat and works in the city centre in a bar. The university has been good, and she’s had a lovely time and made some great friends but the whole city is changing and isn’t as student friendly as it was.

Nottingham does feel a bit grim these days, I tend to go out in Derby these days and never thought I would say that. Nottingham is much worse for crime and violence at night. I know 2 police officers, both say this. But crime rates are easy to look up. It’s easier to avoid the bad bits of Derby, more blurring of lines in Nottingham for gang areas.

I think very sadly the stabbings and the old 'shottingham' rep have had an effect.

It's just not a great city either (sorry). Very limited and local in feel.

Sheffield has a lot more going on and is much more fun and interesting, whereas Leicester is a bit boring (apart from it's multicultural elements) but safe, if you stick to the safe areas. Depending on course, Derby is no metropolis but much cheaper costs wise so probably a good bet for mature students and decent for some things like architecture these days. Notts is good for medicine (it has some good graduate entry provisions) but there isn't anything I can see dragging students there over other red bricks.

You cannot compare Nottingham and Derby universities though.

Also no one takes much notice of The Guardian rankings as they are so different from anyone else. Nottingham is not fashionable at the moment. It never really was a great city but has always been a great place to study. All cities can have crime. Nowhere is immune. Staying safe and knowing not to travel alone at night is important in any city. Murder is more common amongst people who know each other and the poor students at Nottingham were failed by the perpetrator’s lack of care. That can also happen anywhere.

As far as murder rates go, attached is the 22/23 stats per 1,000,000 population. Derby is higher than you would think. In my view students make the best of where they choose for a uni.

The other aspect is that course by course comparisons matter. Overall Nottingham is liked by employers. You might also look at how Newcastle isn’t very high in ranking either. Fashions change.

I mean don't get me wrong, I think this will be a temporary effect (that's of course not to suggest those poor victims will be forgotten by the uni or by the city). I think it has just caused enough hesitancy to put some potential interest off, without enough of a draw to counteract it short term.

I hear you about Derby, not suggesting it would steal Notts' thunder anytime soon but it has improved a lot. That's, as I say, in quite specific areas, and with the cost of living could give second thoughts, nursing definitely I've heard a few. Maths has improved. Murder rates, people don't tend to check preemptively but would just be put off if a high profile one was all they know of an area. Derby it's more under the radar.

I will give you my twopenceworth. I’ve been informed by a relatively reliable gen z source that the social life around Nottingham uni now revolves around druggy mandem from Croydon who carry knives etc. It started at Nottingham Trent but has moved to the uni. It’s all over TikTok apparently. I don’t use TikTok personally. I didn’t believe it at first and kept reiterating that Nottingham was an excellent rg uni and deserving of a UCAS choice but apparently it’s unfashionable now unless you are interested in drill and ketamine.

@EggFriedRiceAndChips Do you think students avoid drugs elsewhere? There’s no drug free city. Of course a few wanting drugs doesn’t put others off. Every city has drugs. The vast majority don’t want them though. Do people avoid Scottish unis due to drugs? They have more drug deaths in Scotland. Not really sure this is a major factor. Nottingham and Newcastle are dropping down the tables and some like Liverpool don’t get high either. As more students from London and SE go to university, where they choose sways league tables.

Ds24 was at NTU and ds18 first choice is uni of notts. Ds24 loved Notts, lived in West Bridgeford for 2nd and 3rd year. He would say that there were no more drugs than any other uni and he enjoyed being in Notts. He loved ntu and stayed for his masters. Every uni and city will have a drugs culture.

Ds1 is still there in year 3 of a 4 year course and he really likes it a lot, but tbf like HelenCurly we didn't need to access the pastoral.

I don't know anything about Nottingham University but dd is in her final year at Nottingham Trent and loves both the Uni and the city. She's really glad that she chose it and is planning stay after she graduates.

It's a shame if the stabbings have affected applications. They were horrific but could have happened anywhere.

It's funny how different people's perspectives are. With my own London DC, Bristol Uni is the druggy one to avoid.

DD is there and loves it. She has some disability needs and they have been amazingly helpful with that (both the support team and the academics). She's sporty and the facilities are very good.

Given the perpetrator of the murders in 2023 was captured, tried and jailed, and was confirmed to have been a mentally ill ex-student acting alone, I think it is completely nuts that people are avoiding Nottingham Uni for that reason.

I teach at a school that used to funnel students almost directly to Nottingham and NTU. NTU remains popular but Nottingham has slid down. Some of it is the catered accommodation. I doubt it's the awful events as NTU is still buoyant as I said. Our RG lot seem drawn more now to Sheffield, Exeter, Bristol and Birmingham, even though two of those are awful to get to from here. One of mine said the Nottingham Open Day was not great.

My dc is loving Uni of Nottingham and I found the academic and support staff to be warm and friendly when we went round it initially. The main campus is beautiful, there is a good choice of accommodation (catered and self catered) and there are plenty of student societies. A few of the sporting clubs like rowing require massive commitment but there are other sporting clubs that are once a week plus socials.
From what I've heard the students go around in groups of friends at night and make use of Ubers which work out no more expensive than buses if you share with a friend or two.
As for the league tables the Times one seems more reliable than some of the others. Nottingham had more covid restrictions than other places so maybe there was a time when the student experience was not so good and that contributed to the dip. It also seems that some unis encourage their students more than others to fill in feedback questionnaires regarding the student experience so whilst the league tables are a guide they don't tell the full story. Definitely best to visit as many unis as possible in person before making the decision.

Agree with this. It was so popular at one point among posh kids from London that there used to be comedy sketches about it, obviously taking the piss.

I think the equivalent university now is Newcastle! All the posh kids are going there.

Nottingham has always had a drug problem - certainly did 20 years ago. But no worse than elsewhere really I expect.

Nottingham has always benefitted from being central and had applications from the east, north, south and West- in a way that say Newcastle and Southampton wouldn't.

The awful stabbings have perhaps steered away some who were really only putting it down for geographical reasons. I'm sure it will bounce back.

Has there been a big drop in foreign students?

I think Nottingham U may have suffered from N Trent making so many unconditional offers a few years back.

I don't know if it's still the case, but some sixth formers were put off Nottingham in case people thought they had gone to Trent.