Oxford Brookes?

[bournevilleismyfavourite]

Anyone got any experience?

I know this forum tends to be higher tariff universities.

My son is holding an offer for business management. We went to the open day today and liked it despite the weather. He’s a sociable, sports mad boy and really liked the hockey set up.

I was impressed with the business talk - it seemed forward thinking, lots of options for hands on experience with modules and industry experience/placements.

Would love to hear actual experience. Also does it empty out at weekends? He won’t be coming home that often as we’re quite a long way away.

Thanks.

Thanks @TizerorFizz this intellectual snobbery is so tedious. Ironic really that some people can’t seem to grasp that not everyone can get A stars.

@bournevilleismyfavourite I too find it very odd that we cannot see there are very good courses at the former polys and that they suit some dc admirably. A level results are not the only indicator of success in the workplace either. I hate this idea that you should be warned off a university because there’s a minority of students who might have a different background from you. Also there’s plenty of parents at my local grammars who would have paid if the 11 plus had gone pear shaped. They are still the same people!

I haven't any personal experience at Brookes myself, but know people who work there as well as people who study or have studied there.

Brookes has some areas of real excellence, and it does vocational courses well. Generally the students I've met who have been there recently have been satisfied with their courses. (And I don't think there is any truth in the stereotypes mentioned earlier on the thread - the Brookes students I've met are not particularly 'posh'.) The campus is attractive and has a vibrant modern feel. Like most universities, it's had a tough time with the fall in international students, but this won't have affected the business department.

Oxford is in many ways a good place to be a student (small walkable city, pretty safe, lots going on for its size). However, as mentioned above, housing is not easy, and because the Council has strict limits on how many HMOs are allowed (to avoid certain streets becoming student-only and so deserted for half the year) it puts a lot of pressure on the private rental market. But students seem to manage and Brookes does have its own letting agency which means they don't have to deal with dodgy landlords.

Be careful. Oxford Brookes is the most indebted university in the UK. There's an UCU report on it. There is currently a university wide voluntary severance scheme. A lot of staff have gone. Two departments are being closed down. It does still rank reasonably well in the Guardian etc but it's entry requirements are now in the bottom twenty. Ten years ago their requirements were mid table. They're desperate for fee paying students. It's odds on that they are one of the at risk institutions mentioned in articles about the HE funding crisis. You may find more students find themselves repeating years under these conditions.

As always the devil is in the detail. Oxford Brookes has a healthy cash balance (£37 million) so can easily service the debt. There is an article in the Telegraph today and it is mid table for financial performance (above Newcastle, York, Bath, Liverpool, Cardiff, St Andrews, Durham, Nottingham and quite a few other respected universities) All UK universities are feeling the squeeze.
As for redundancies. Yes there were 106 redundancies last year but Durham had 119, Newcastle had 278, Surrey has 262 and Nottingham had 478 as a few examples (there are plenty more) so it's hardly the worst.
I certainly wouldn't put people off applying. Certainly not more than than putting off people applying for any other UK university.

Hmm.

Here's an excerpt from the UCU analysis:

Brookes now has: (i) debts three times higher than the sector average and (ii) cash lower than all but a few institutions. If we were looking at a benign period in English HE funding, it would be concerning. As it is, it looks reckless.

Here it is in full:
https://oxfordbrookes.web.ucu.org.uk/oxford-brookes-ucu-financial-analysis-summary-april-2024/

Agree
My DD had an offer from OB, but decided not to take it because the rents were so expensive.

Interesting, thanks everyone! He’s firmed it as his first choice so we’ll see. He’s applied for 2026 as he’s having a work/travel gap year first. I heard about rents. His preferred halls are the 50 week ones too! We’re lucky that it’s not a deal breaker for us. But a big difference from where our other two DS were!

Most universities have been reckless with expansion and taking loans. Many are still basing financial stability on increasing student numbers which seems equally reckless. OB isn’t alone in this. Far from it. Prospective students have to take a view on what this could mean but it’s a reasonable bet that OB will survive and has already removed some less popular courses. The best advice is to do a popular course.

Universities have caused the scramble for housing by over expansion. They are very good at saying what positive things they bring to an area but never look at how rents are pushed up for all due to housing shortages. The homeless are everywhere by the way. No one would ever go to university in London if homeless people put them off.

Hmm. The OCU is a union right? Trying to protect employee jobs? No agenda then for them to present the worst possible financial scenario then of course and being selective with the facts to suit their agenda.
The debts are caused by an ambitious capital expansion plan, bringing all academic facilities to the Headington campus. The new Headington Hill campus is fantastic (I was there in March) and the new upgraded Clive Booth halls are impressive too. All this will do is to make the university more appealing and popular with future students who can now study on one campus rather than being spread out in the city.
As I said in my earlier post, I wouldn't let the financial position put anyone off.

This is worth a read - OB is in the lower half financially if you measure by Ratio assets to liabilities; net liquidity day excl pension and External borrowing percentage. But Durham’s finances are appalling by those measures and I’ve yet to see anyone tell their offspring not to go to Durham.

(Note several university’s accounts do not appear in the dashboard as they were late.)

Edited to add link…. https://wonkhe.com/blogs/what-the-latest-hesa-data-tells-us-about-university-finances/

They're moving everything to Headington because their other campuses are closing down. If this is making it more appealing and popular with students why have their entry requirements gone from mid table to bottom twenty?

The university is the one saying the financial trouble is necessitating cuts, not the UCU. The UCU has no reason to want there to be a justification for cuts. Your suggestion the the UCU is somehow fabricating a crisis is absurd.

You ask does it empty out at weekends?

No. Oxford Brookes is in Oxford. It is rammed at weekends. He should find more than enough to occupy him - and no reason at all to travel home during term time for entertainment.

The BCU is blaming mismanagement for the financial crisis and trying to apportion blame for the staff cuts because mismanagement has made staff redundancies unavoidable (which coincidentally as I mentioned in a previous quote is by no means the highest in the sector).
Direct quote from the BCU report below
"the recent move towards reductions of 5% in staffing costs is a direct consequence of the University’s financial mismanagement"

As I said twice the campus closures have long been planned (planning permission granted in 2022) as part of a campus redevelopment Master Plan and are not reactionary, spur of the moment decisions. Link below
www.brookes.ac.uk/estates-development

As quoted in the BCU report itself the university said this will be income producing which it most certainly will be as it's now a modern, attractive campus all on one site. The union not surprisingly refutes this.
The Headington Hill site and the Clive Booth sites have only come into operation this year, so it will only now be starting to attract students. Quoting entry standards from previous years is largely irrelevant as they are before the other sites relocated to Headington.
Anyway putting the above to one side. Various league tables quoted in previous posts show that while OB is in the bottom half for financial indicators it is by no means the worst and other very notable universities are in a worse situation.
As I have said a few times there is certainly no reason to advise people not to apply to study there. Unless you have an axe to grind of course, which seems the case here.

Here's the plans for the development of the Harcourt hill campus from a few years ago. How does this fit with your claim that it's closure was long planned?

https://www.rocktownsend.co.uk/higher-education/harcourt-hill-campus-oxford-brookes-university

No doubt Rock Townsend just made that because they have agendas and axes to grind though, right?

It makes a great deal of sense to have OB on one site. Harcourt is the opposite side of Oxford and Wheatley was very inconvenient once OB got established in Headington. Headington is a better site and desirable for students. Their plan has consolidated their central location.

Not sure of finances but housing is going onto the Wheatley site I believe. Harcourt too one would think.

I agree with @titchy that no one says students should avoid other lofty universities in far worse financial straights. However relying on new buildings to bring in students is probably not a great plan. New accommodation always costs a lot but Oxford has a lot going on and good connections to London.

OB is ranked 46 in the Complete University Guide. That’s very good. It’s above Lincoln, Sussex, QMUL (a RG uni), Kent, Bangor, Sheffield Hallam, SOAS and Hull. It’s one of the highest ranked former Polytechnics. Whoever it’s letting in, its job prospects at 79% rank very well. Higher than some very established names! So a perfectly reasonable choice.

I loved it there. Previous poster is correct to say there were lots of not so bright private school kids. Parents wanted to be able to say their children were at university in Oxford was my assumption.

It’s hardly worth getting offended over the fact that there are clearly brighter people at Oxford over Oxford Brookes. That doesn’t mean Brookes wasn’t full of clever, lovely
people. Oxford is a beautiful, vibrant place to go to uni. I’d recommend it.

Measuring income against assets doesn't show a comprehensive overview of a university finances. Given that Oxford Brookes has massively over borrowed to fund new buildings, obviously this metric is going to paint the least bad picture. Hence why it was chosen in this thread by people who obviously have links to the university. People who also claim that Brookes can easily service its debt with it's cash reserves, which is clearly not true. People who claim that the closure of Harcourt was long planned. Here's the full "master plan" for it redevelopment.

https://static.brookes.ac.uk/spacetothink/documents/harcourt-hill-masterplan-dec2012-lowres.pdf

The plan was to move humanities and social sciences to Harcourt as departments moved from Wheatley to Headington. Now they're having to convert library space to teaching space to try to cram it all into Headington. This is widely known at the University. People in this thread aren't being honest.

It was ‘chosen’ in this thread because OP’s dc is hoping to firm Some other people brought in finances claiming they are pitiful. The reality is they’re not that bad. Their debt to asset ratio is 1.5 - so perfectly serviceable. I’m not an accountant but anything less than 1.0 means technically insolvency so they’re Ok from that point of view.

It’s ok by other financial indicators as well as I pointed out in my earlier post. Not brilliant, but ok. Given that the entire sector is pretty fucked financially at the moment, it’s not in that bad a place.

Oh come on please. You can do better than that. Those plans are from 2012.
And you can say it's a selective choice of statistics. By most measures (apart from external debt) Oxford Brookes is by no means the worst in the sector.
I have no links to the University apart from the fact that my son has an offer to study there and I visited in March and was really impressed (as were the other parents and students) It definitely has a bright future despite some doom mongering on here.
You and other posters clearly have an agenda as there are many other universities you could pick on.

I was going to go to an open day in June with my son who’s in year 12 but since booking it, my friend has told me it has a big reputation for spoilt privately educated kids driving around in their 4x4s. She actually has kids at who are/were privately educated herself so it’s not a particular dig at them. It’s put me off to be honest, my son would struggle - he likes things more diverse than that.

2012 isn't very long ago in planning and building terms. That's also when the plans were put in motion for the redevelopment of Headington Hill, which was completed this year.

You're very good at accusing everyone of having agendas. The UCU for example. Do you not think that if, as you say, the university is in great shape, the UCU would have suggested easily servicing the debt, rather than resorting to layoffs and closures? How exactly would fabricating a crisis, and justification for cuts, fit with a UCU agenda to protect jobs?

You can probably get in now they've lowered their entry standards. Even with that level of reading comprehension.

What did you mean then as I clearly misunderstood?