which A levels for law for numerate child ?

[11plusNewbie]

my daughter has been talking about studying law for a long time, currently year 10, except she likes and is very able in maths/physics. she has never studied latin and has dropped History for GCSE but is doing RPE (Religion, Philosophy and Ethics).
Any thoughts on suitable A level subject choice please?
Maths/Physics are her current favorite, she is even talking about taking Chemistry. How would that put her for applying to law ?
Perhaps she could look at economics instead of chemistry ?
She is bilingual in an European language but would not take it for A level.

Thank you.

My DS did French, Spanish and Biology A levels. He secured a training contract with the firm he did his vacation scheme with, and his been working as a qualified lawyer for the past 5 or 6 years. He's 27 now, and is still very much enjoying his work

I should definitely recommend an essay subject as writing fluently and constructing a cogent argument are essential skills for Law. In many ways, Law is language and so an ability to respond to sometimes tiny nuances in register is very helpful. (I did English and MFL at A Level, English Lit degree and then conversion course, LLM in academic subject - not practitioner with 'add-on dissertation' - and Bar course and found the writing very straightforward.)

Religion Philosophy and Ethics is an absolute monster of an A Level - my DD2 did it and I honestly think it's the equivalent of about 1.5 or even 2 other Arts/Humanities A levels. The amount of content is astounding. It would be a great foundation for a Law degree however. DD2 clearly loved it as she is doing ethics papers on her English degree course.

3.5 years, not 5/6! I got his A-level subjects right though😅

Out of what’s available RPE, Economics and Maths would work well enough.

wow I had no idea, that may be something to consider and discuss with her school.
thank you.

Thank you all for your responses, they have all been really helpful and are giving us a clearer picture.
I knew I'd find knowledge and experience here !

the conversion seemed attractive until several of you mentioned the cost of it ! I need to look that up. Are we talking £20/£25K for one year tuition ????

thank you ! very helpful and congratulations !

thank you ! we have a year to decide on A levels I believe so things might change, especially as they progress onto the GCSE curriculum, perhaps ? thank you for the cambridge reference, had never heard of it

that is a good question... I feel commercial law but it is not clear to me yet. so I thought perhaps an economics degree followed by conversion might work for her. need to look at cost, and really what aspects of law she is envisaging thank you

@11plusNewbie No. The conversion is around £10-11,000. The LLM is more like £15,000. The Bar Training course is circa £15,500. When DD did it, it was £18,000. They now train even more who don’t get pupillage! The main thing to investigate is scholarships. One for the Bar Training Course is vital. DD got a hefty one from her Inn plus more from her course provider. If you don’t have much money, look at the residential scholarships.

Advise looking at some of the law degrees on a few universities and see what the entry requirements are; some of the top unis may even ask for certain GCSE requirements too.

Maths and philosophy is a very good fit. A third should probably be another practical essay subject so economics or business maybe?

Or she could do a maths degree and convert if she loves it.

My advice? Whatever A levels will take her into a second choice degree/job she’ll also like, as long as they’re solid, robust….

my DS was like your daughter. Did trial courts at school, legal competitions and even went on the Nottingham law residential taster courses they run for A level ages. Had all his university choices picked out in first year of A levels. Was taking it very seriously.

he’d opted for a weird mix of history, chemistry, French and English based on this.

But then, without warning or explanation, in his final year of school, he decided not to do law degree but a degree in History, and then go onto law conversion. Luckily his A level choices were fine for that

Then in final year of university doing history (which he loved) he decided he couldn’t stand the thought of all the bar stuff and years more to actually become a barrister and actually earn money. He applied to civil service, spent 5 years on their fast track including MoH through Covid, is heavily involved in politics but works for a consultancy around political policy and loves it.

so even the keenest kids can change their minds when the time and cost involved with law qualifications really stack up and they realise how stiff competition is.

And then there is my other relative of similar age. They studied music. Seriously. Became a professional musician (classical) until Covid hit and decimated their career. They decided to retrain to become a barrister at age of 27. Quite a leep! They Did law conversion from music degree, then sailed through all the legal exams, bar, pupillage, etc and just has completed tenancy and is now fully qualified to go it alone on cases as criminal barrister. Sure, they’ve got a background of intense self discipline learning and performance that actually suits barrister role and training to the ground apparently…plus being more mature with life experience under their belt they stood out in what is a very competitive career.

so, imhe, it’s way better for her to study good quality A levels that could turn her career to a second choice currently, and leave her options fully open. As long as they’re sound traditional A levels, thst show she’s academic and serious at learning, and she has other qualities and experience to make her stand out, she can always do law conversion after first degree anyway, or even come back to law in later years.

she is still young. She still has a lot of brain and emotional growing to do. Law seems to be very flexible in the sense of being able to pick up at any stage , unlike needing to change the other way if she changes her mind at some point.

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Agree with this.
my relative , who came at law at 27 having been a professional classic musician, did law conversation, and also funded a lot of her costs through scholarship and doing/winning competitions to get seen and heard.

i was shocked how stiff competition is for pupiledge, I sort of knew it, but reality is scary, even though my relative did sail through,

When DD did her Bar Training course, she had pupillage already offered and accepted before she started. So the Inn spent its money well! Not many get it at this stage after GDL. Yes. It’s competitive but depends on area of law in terms of how competitive . However no one would admit to sailing through but I think the Oxbridge crew mostly get what they want, but not all!

You need to factor in the fees and living costs for 1 year conversion. Whilst some scholarships or firm support may exist many end up self funding so with living costs your £20,000/£25000 isn’t unrealistic.

@OP from what you’ve said and what others have contributed, Maths, Physics and RPE/Philosophy & Ethics A-levels sound like a great combination for law. Then she gets the science and maths she enjoys, plus an essay subject to explore the more abstract philosophical questions.

One thing is that usually with the Maths/Physics combination the student chooses Maths with Mechanics as the applied part of the A-level — but law often deals with statistical analysis, so she may want to think about Maths with Statistics. However, that’s more of a secondary consideration and not essential. (If she chose, say, Maths, Economics and RPE, the Stats option would fit better with economics anyway.)

HOWEVER — it’s important to enjoy the A-levels and want to do them so that she achieves the best grades possible. So if she prefers Maths & Mechanics + Physics + Philosophy/RPE, then those are a great combination of A-levels for law, to be honest - both analytical and philosophical. Most law degrees contain modules or papers on legal philosophy and ethics, plus the compulsory training for the solicitors’ qualification route (LPC/SQE) and the Bar both include compulsory Ethics exams. My DP is a lawyer, and science is actually very useful in some areas of the law like medical/clinical negligence (so is maths — surprisingly useful in lots of areas of law!)

Cambridge University says maths is a good choice. Defending where op lives, lots of students commute to the conversion course. Although full time, they can condense into less than a week. Leaves time for valuable work experience.

@neverthelastone thank you for our input. I was under the impression that the Economics A level was more an essay subject with not so much maths ? or does it depends on the actual exam board ?

in any case I need to narrow down what are of law she has in mind

Not a lawyer but a numerate / sciences background might be a good basis for patent attorney - so combining both fields?

Isn't maths A level now pure, statistics and mechanics - all 3 are studied and examined?

Depends on the exam board - if her school do the new combined one that’s ideal for OP’s daughter!