BTEC National Diploma for Uni

[KnottyAuty]

trying to decide on 6th forms for DS. One of them offers BTEC Diploma alongside 2 A Levels. It’s a small setting which DS really likes the idea of after a large secondary. But BTECs arent accepted by all unis. Does it matter that he might be reducing his options later for uni applications?

A lot of universities will accept btechs, especially if taken with 2 A levels. The more btechs taken I think the less likely you are to be considered by the more prestigious ones but one is fine for most courses. I don't think Oxbridge or anywhere for medicine/veterinary consider btechs at all and at popular Russell groups courses like economics, law and computer science it would be hard to get an offer with btechs but at the majority of universities including Russell group on the majority of courses of courses they are accepted.
I'd recommend starting at the end point and working back, so have a look at different courses at different universities you think she may potentially consider at that time and see what their requirements say then you can check to see if the 6th form options she is making still leave her with plenty of options.

Thanks @sausageupanalley

DS is interested in Computer Science… The BTEC is being driven by lack of availability of FM locally and him wanting a small quiet 6th form. he’s completely dead set against our local giant 6th Form with 3000 students…

I’ve been through the uni sites and Kings and Queen Mary seem to accept BTECs. Imperial and UCL won’t consider him at all. It’s hard to let those two options go when he’s so academically able… But if it means he has a better chance at a good 6th Form experience and is happy then maybe it’s worth it?

I’m just worrying about the possible scenario where he doesn’t enjoy the 6th form and has cut down his options…

Weve got one more 6th form to visit at a school out of borough but we missed the original open day so won’t get a visit for another month. But he could do all A Levels there - and maybe a fourth in Physics as his GCSEs will be good enough.

sorry for the rambling but I’d love to hear opinions/experiences of others. Thanks!

The issue isn't only whether unis will take BTEC but also how well they prepare people for uni. In my experience of uni teaching, they don't prepare people well, though this was in a subject with lots of essay writing based on critical thinking, and he would still be doing two A levels to polish different skills. If he's bright I'd also look at how engaging the BTEC is going to be. My daughter found the content of her BTEC interesting, and you certainly get much more discussion of application than in many A levels. However she found it very easy compared to the A levels and she coasted - lots of regurgitation in exactly the format they'd been taught to regurgitate (mind you, A level has gone a bit that way).

Would the school allow 4 subjects in the first year or first few weeks, then he can try and drop one, if you can see an obvious plan B at this school?

@Ramblethroughthebrambles thanks for this - I’m also worried about it being a bit too easy. It’s BTEC Computing. The school is very small and has limited options so sadly he can’t “try it out” and would have to commit to the whole thing. Not bragging but he’s very bright and is likely to be at the top of the year group. I am worrying a bit about whether the Maths will be taught at a high enough level to keep him engaged. But that might be the same at anywhere but a specialist maths school I suppose… oh what do to?!?

Also the specialist school has a focus on employability and offers industry mentoring and possible degree apprenticeship options with partner firms. So that’s a good offer which maybe makes up for the reduced uni options. I’m minded to let him go somewhere he’ll be happy

are there things he can do as a side hustle/extra to show his abilities in computing which would help for uni applications? Or are they all fixated on formal qualifications?

Unis do tend to be rather fixated on formal qualifications (apart from mature student entry) as that's the business the are in themselves. Also be aware that even though some say they'll accept BTECs, if they are over subscribed and selecting between applicants high A level grades are likely to have the edge.

I agree it's important to look at what else the school offers and it could be that he decides against uni in a couple of years.

To be as well informed as possible, could he look up the maths syllabus online for the BTEC and compare with the syllabus for A level maths? He could also find the admissions enquiries email address for a couple of unis that do the kind of course he might be interested in and ask directly about their take on the BTEC?

Fortunately it’s A Level Maths & Further maths. The BTEC Diploma (2 A Level equivalent) is in Computing.

There’s an option to add a project to get the BTEC Higher National Diploma (3 A Level equivalent).

All being well he should have a great UCAS score - but it’s all for naught if unis don’t like the BTECs…

Can’t speak for BTECs precisely, but my eldest is 19 and has done an Access and UCL, Uni of Roehampton, Manchester have all been very quick to offer her places in the UCAS system this year (within 24hrs) - which leads me to feel they are very likely to accept a BTEC and 2xAlevels. For each uni, we did get in touch with admissions to double check, but I think unis that state that they are open to/happy to consider BTECs are very likely to do so.

If your son is more likely to be happier in the setting that offers the BTEC, he is more likely to do well/better there and get much better results. It’s the (predicted) grades that will shape which unis make offers (ime) so the setting which suits him is best.

That said, unis like Reading, Kent, Bournemouth - ie not RG groups - are incredibly nurturing and supportive and the kids of my friends/my godsons have gone on to great grad opportunities in the City, the police, the civil service with 2:1s from them.

Not sure if this helps reassure at all?

Oh thanks for this @CautiousLurker01 What Access course did your DC do please? And where? I hadn’t thought about this but doing a pre-uni conversion might be a good option…

UCL won’t accept BTECs on to the BSc and their engineering access course seems to need A Levels. I think Comp Sci is so competitive (17 applications per place at Imperial!) that the top unis take their pick.

that said there’s a lot to be said for being happy!

Ignore the snobby comments, if your child is happy that is priority.

My daughter's best friend has just been given a conditional offer in the first place she chose for university, just the BTEC and no A levels.

I'd second @Ramblethroughthebrambles about what the BTEC does. I teach in the humanities and we take BTECs in our degree programmes in my discipline, but they need to have Distinctions. The students are good at the practical elements of their discipline, but not very well-prepared nor confident about research and writing, and critical analysis, essays etc.

So it might be useful if one of hs A Levels has a proportion of essay-based assessments and critical analytical learning - History, Geography, Economics maybe? To balance out the practical focus of the BTEC.

My son is doing 2 A level's and a BTEC. It works for him as tye Unis for courses he is looking at see a D in the BTEC as equivalent to an A at the equivalent A level. It seems easier to get. a D at BTEC than an A at A level.

You have to look at specific courses as some will want specific A levels and as you are aware may not accept BTEC's.

It probably comes down to how important going to one of the very best universities is and the likelihood of of getting the highest grades at A level.

Regarding BTEC'S my son found the opposite to what has been mentioned. There are no practicals in his. There are 2 exams and 6 assignments. He found the assignments difficult to start off with as he had to research, analyse and evaluate including using research papers.

There wasn't really any of this at GCSE or in the 2 A levels he doing.

Thank @LittleBigHead but the maths and further maths is the essential component for Computer Science entry.

i looked through the course info last night and the college seems to address the writing/thinking issue. Two courses on writing and professional skills have been added in. But somewhat informally…

Would he consider doing a different A level instead of computer science BTEC? Not all computer science students have taken it as an A level, but will have maths and FM plus a different subject.

@RampantIvy thanks for replying.

The BTEC is offered by a small school with limited A Level choices. Hence why I’m trying to figure out what impact doing a BTEC would be - otherwise the school looks great.

The only other local place he can do FM near us is a 6th form with 3000 students. He could do A level computing there - but couldn’t cope with the size.

if he gives up the FM Alevel he’d have more choice about where to go but TBH he’s got his heart set on the small school - so it’s just trying to work out what that means for uni? and how many options are closed down later?

If he is further maths A level calibre then large 6th form might be the better option. The large 6th form college where I live certainly has better and more stable maths teachers than the majority of the school 6th forms could have offered.

Whilst it can be scary to start somewhere new and so big, it can really help with the transition to University. My feelings that kids outgrown school settings by the end of year 12. It's just if he can make that leap at the end of Year 11.

I think universities that look for further maths A level are much less likely to be keen on the btec.

My DC2 took the extended level diploma in BTEC level 3. It's very very different from GCSEs and A level. It was interesting and varied and and would be useful for a DC going on to university to study a more applied computing type degree.

It can be tricky to study A levels and BTEC together. The BTEC was constant - DC worked continually and steadily - it was time consuming to ensure work was distinction star level. There were also exams in year 12 and year 13 that don't match the A level exam period.

Can he apply to the big sixth form and do a taster day before he decides?

@KnottyAuty She does an ‘Access to HE Diploma’. It’s done instead of A Levels by students who are 19 or above, so not in addition to them if that makes sense? So, from what I’ve read they are not accepted along side A Levels but in lieu of. She attends the local tech college to do it and is studdying along side others ages 19-30 who are study different versions (the Access to HE diploma in health studies or history for example, though there is a science one).

I understand some if the top unis (UCL!) won’t accept the science one for its science degrees, the humanities departments accept them happily because they are research and essay focused and provide a good basis for uni, I think, but for STEM they probably need you to have covered more content?

I'd be wary inferring anything about BTECs from Access courses. They are very different. Access courses were originally designed to prepare older applicants for entry to university. BTECs were not originally designed as a stepping stone to university, but as a more vocational option, though many universities now accept them.

Only you can answer whether your DS is going to benefit from and be happy being in one sixth form compared to another. I know that my DS much preferred one college over an academically ‘better’ local sixth form. He would have been miserable if he’d been persuaded to go somewhere he didn’t want to just based on the possibility that one university would remain a potential.

some unis are definitely more sceptical about BTECs than others, and some will insist on distinctions for some of the examined modules.

Thanks @fortyfifty big is unlikely to work due to sensory needs. Small will already be a challenge! He will probably have to live at home for uni - if he goes.

@TheRealMcKenna he will almost certainly be happier at the small school. I'm just wobbly about him reducing his future choices ...

So I've done some number crunching on undergrad comp sci courses in London. There are 21 that say they are London - but realistically that is more like 15 commutable from home. Of those, only UCL and Imperial say no BTECs. Then there's Goldsmiths who don't ask for A Level Maths - probably not the sort of Comp Sci he would want to do! So that leaves about 7 potential Unis near home he could consider (including 2 RG) and who offer decent graduate prospects. It makes me realise he's actually really lucky to have that much choice?!

On that basis I think the BTEC will be OK and it is more important for him to be happy now. We can worry about the rest later! Thanks everyone for all your helpful comments xx

@KnottyAuty If he’s going to live at home for university, that surely means your research into suitable degrees is relatively small. Are you London as you talk about UCL and Imperial?

You should also consider what results this 6th form gets. Working with employers sounds like a UTC. Is it? Could he not take Physics? Would he thrive at a high pressure uni anyway?

Good question!
80% go to uni. Most their first choice. 100% pass the BTEC with 20% getting top grades a third getting A-A* in their maths A Level.
Seems ok?

My dd did a btec dip which was equivalent of 2 alevels. She got the a level equivalent of B.B. she also did one alevel which she got a C in. She got into university no issues (Lincoln)

thank you! that's reassuring!

Have you had a look at the admissions criteria of the local universities your DS is interested in?