Ancient World / Classical Civilisation Studies Degree

[helgahe]

Has anyone done this degree or have dc or who did? Our dd has got an offer to study this at a range of places (including Oxford) but we are concerned about its usefulness for getting a job.

Chris Martin's done well out of it! Possibly not a typical Ancient World graduate, though. Other than that, I'd say it's as good as any other humanities degree. You can't got wrong with a degree from Oxford, can you?

(I am in my 60s so this is far from up to date, but back in the 1980s having a Classics degree was viewed very positively by employers. Ancient World and Classical Civilisation would be viewed in a similar way, I imagine.)

Anything at all if studied at Oxford, is going to be useful.

My friend has a degree in classical civilisation- now a primary school teacher.
i know of a few people with similar degrees but none working in that area.
my nephew graduated two years ago from RG uni with anthropology and ancient history- now working as a sous chef!

My DD is doing a similar degree at a top 10 institution. I wanted her to do a degree in a subject she was passionate about, but I also said that (as it was available to her), she must insure she studied it in a top Uni, in the hope that the institution would carry some weight in general graduate positions.

When I was looking for a graduate role, many companies didn't really care what the degree was, as long as your grades were good (and good Uni). I know with blind applications, that isn't always the case now, but I also thought it was important she studied something she loved, so fingers crossed it still stands in some graduate roles...Or she might use it in her career, who knows?

My DD has a degree in Classics from a top university and chose to enter social work, which she's been doing now for a few years.

Hey OP, I have a classics degree, from a RG uni, not Oxford. My job is absolutely nothing to do with it and the majority of my course mates went into unrelated fields, from law and banking to politics to PR, a few in academia. For me, in a non-STEM career that doesn't require a specific degree subject, a 2.1 degree from a good uni was enough and nobody ever asked what I studied! I imagine from Oxford it'll be looked upon very favourably.

Good for pub quizzes too...

It’s a tricky one though OP.
as an example, both my partner and my brother went into careers in PR and law without specific degrees.

they both recruit now, and say that they usually take candidates with a specific degree (and masters too) because these degrees exist now, and there are so many more graduates to choose from.

Lawyer child of mine did ancient history, qualified last year. 50% of solicitors do a different degree first (although that choice does have financial implications so needs careful consideration).

Humanities academic here. Classics/Class Civ graduates are very employable and go into exactly the same range of graduate professions as those who have studied any other degree (ie law,
accountancy, finance, business, civil service, journalism as well are more obviously Classicsy things like heritage sector or teaching.)

If she is doing a degree with the ancient languages, Classicists are also valued in fields like coding and also in counter terrorism (because of the transferable linguistics skills and logic skills).

Classics graduates from Oxford are extremely employable.

Unless she wants to become something like an engineer or an architect then it will not stop her pursuing any career she wants to later on.

@helgahe this degree is fine if she is interested in a future career that might use it, or a career which is very traditional in its recruitment patterns, like law. But bear in mind that, these days, anyone who does a subject they love with the expectation that they will be snapped up just because they have a degree, or just because they went to Oxford, is 20+ years out of date. The graduate job market is now a lot more competitive and egalitarian.

If she's wavering, then she should perhaps some time to think about what she might want to do with her future, and choose a degree path that is aligned with that.

I did Class Civ at an RG uni in the early 00s. I, like lots of people with arts and humanities degrees then who had no idea what they wanted to do, on graduating got taken on by a London temping agency. My third placement was a charity, and that led to a career in the voluntary sector. Lots of my vol sector friends came to their roles in a similar way. I don't know how much stumbling into a career like that still happens though.

Oxford graduates don’t get snapped up “because they went to Oxford” in the sense of employers craving the badge. But Oxford graduates tend to have developed pretty good analytical, communication, and thinking skills which help in a recruitment process. Classics is interdisciplinary and rigorous and graduates come out with a range of skills. See the other thread active at the moment on uni blind recruitment and how omitting the name of the uni doesn’t lead to any fewer graduates from elite unis being selected.

"But Oxford graduates tend to have developed pretty good analytical, communication, and thinking skills which help in a recruitment process."

@foxglovetree Yes, but they have developed those skills before they go to Oxford. So if they choose a different uni instead then they will still be just as impressive at a uni-blind interview.

Employers that still do unashamedly target recruits from Oxbridge etc do so because they know the first sift for those skills has already been done at the university admissions stage.

@frootyloop they have the skills and the potential before, but those skills are extensively developed through 3 (or for Classicists 4) years of researching and writing 1 or 2 essays a week and being required to present and defend each one in front of an academic. The tutorial system is massively time consuming and expensive but it is also an excellent training in analytical and thinking skills and students and alumni really feel it changes how they learn to think. That is the reason Oxford and Cambridge keep it despite the fact it costs them millions a year and is hugely inefficient in terms of staff time.

I have taught at Oxford and I have taught at other unis including prestigious RG (as well as further down the hierarchy) There were bright and able students at all the institutions I’ve worked in, no question. But the extent to which you could see the Oxford students develop and improve over a degree programme was very marked because of the vastly higher amount of feedback and practice they got. (8-12 pieces of written work a term, each of which gets detailed formative feedback and they are put on the spot to debate with an academic and one of their peers, as opposed to 2 pieces of written work a term in a class of 30 at the next place I taught).

The entire point of going to uni is to develop an intellectual skill set through learning to research, evaluate, write, critique. It isn’t just a holding pen for 3 years where you come out exactly the same as you went in. Oxford has the resources to devote a vast amount of personal attention to each student and so it isn’t surprising that most students get added benefit from that.

Well said, @foxglovetree.

My DD is weighing up similar options OP. I'm a firm believer in following the path you love. I appreciate a passion for your subject doesn't pay the bills but I believe you're more likely to do well in your chosen subject if it's something you truly love rather than just a stepping stone to a job.

She must be very good to have an offer from Oxford.

As others have said, there are lots of potential paths for her to follow. Lawyer, journalist, museums/heritage, academia...

Does your DD have any idea what she wants to do?

A classics degree is still highly respected because of the number of skills it teaches. It is famously a difficult degree and employers know that - especially the course taught at Oxford. If your DD loves the subject, she will work harder and do better at it than doing something she likes less but chooses for vocational reasons.

Congrats to your daughter on the offers - she must be exceptionally bright and hard working.

"Oxford has the resources to devote a vast amount of personal attention to each student and so it isn’t surprising that most students get added benefit from that."

@foxglovetree I have no argument with that, and it explains why some employers, including top law firms, still target Oxbridge. But that represents just a very, very small portion of graduate jobs. Employers who do blind recruitment, or cast their net widely, realise they don't need Oxbridge graduates for any-degree jobs like management. They need intelligence, work experience, life experience, leadership skills, emotional intelligence, self awareness - the sort of qualities that can be found at any university and, at apprentice level, at any school. That is one reason why competition for "any degree" graduate jobs has increased. The other reason is that there are simply many more graduates.

I know three ex-Oxbridge humanities graduates who have struggled to find "any degree" jobs in this market.

Mine is doing the same (but not applying to Oxbridge). The alternative ‘interest’ was Fine Art, so we’re happy. We fully aware that it will be a first degree and that a Masters will have to be taken - law, psychology, finance, art are all accessible as are careers in that sector. For us the focus was on a subject that would hold interest for 3 years and be enjoyable enough that 2:1/1st would be more likely and from a good university. They all seem to have 90% employment or postgrad study at 18m according to the ‘where they go on to’ data.