Please help - DD hates uni (second year)

[EndlessDIY]

DD is in her second year at uni studying her favourite A level subject. It’s a uni that has a fantastic reputation generally (consistently in the top 10) and specifically for her area of interest.

But it hasn’t remotely lived up to expectations.

On the academic side, she hates her course - and I can understand why. There’s nothing in the structure of it that facilitates getting to know others on the course - it’s so solitary. DD says the lectures are often dull and not engaging. Assignments are given without clear expectations of what good looks like; her cohort were once given a sample submission as an example without being told if it was any good! What’s the point of that? (Turns out it was a 2.2.)

DD is bright (9s at A level), conscientious, prides herself in doing well and is trying her best with her coursework. Some assignments have come back with unexpectedly low marks, which she could handle if she knew why, and how to improve, but feedback is skeletal, vague and students have been told explicitly not to ask for more specific feedback. DD doesn’t know how to “get it right”. (This isn’t how I remember uni.) DD wanted to get a first but now, really struggling to motivate herself, she’s worrying she won’t get a 2.1.

DD is sociable, friendly and thrives in a team and with a sense of community, and just isn’t feeling that while away at uni. She made some wonderful friends in first year via a shared interest but they then graduated, and this year, despite her being actively involved in uni life and extra-curricular activities, she has felt lonely. She has such a lovely group of friends from school, which has set the bar high, and uni isn’t coming close on that front.

She’s also dealing with a long-term physical health problem which flares up from time to time, and affects her participation in some of the extra-curricular stuff she enjoys most. So this gets her down too.

DD is struggling to cope. She’s come home for a few days to revise (“uni doesn’t feel like home”) and we’ve chatted a lot. She’s just so down with it all, ruminating, blaming herself for not trying harder to wrap her head around the way the course expectations and marking work (I don’t think there’s more she could have done on this front), struggling to get going with her work, saying, “I can’t believe I’m paying for this!”

It’s too late to switch course. We can’t afford for her to start a different degree from scratch. She feels that quitting will limit her work options and she’ll always regret not having the resilience to push through. And she says if she quits and comes home, there’ll just be different problems: what to do work-wise, and loneliness due to her close friends being away at their unis.

In a few days, she’ll have to go back for exams and I’m worried about her. Are there any other options here that we’re missing? Is there any way she can get more direction/feedback from those delivering the course and around marking, so she feels more confident tackling future assignments? (Her tutor hasn’t been much help.) What strategies can she use to get through the next 16 months when she already feels like this?

She’s had periods of getting quite low in the past, usually briefly thankfully, and a severe, commonly heritable, mental health condition runs in the family, so it’s pretty important for DD to stay on as even a keel as possible.

Grateful for any thoughts - we can’t see the wood for the trees with this. Thanks.

Not having clear expectations set is a failure on the part of the university. They do indeed need to know what good looks like. They are paying for this out of their own pocket.

Do other students feel the same? If so, I think they should get together and raise this with the uni - there will be proper processes for doing this. It is not so easy to raise the social/isolating aspects I guess, but being clear about academic goals is a very basic prerequisite for achievement and they are buying a substandard product at the moment.

I agree with @Mischance that clear expectations are essential. Good feedback is, too. Feedback is usually one of the weakest points on the National Survey of Student Satisfaction.

I also agree with @Mischance that it would be good to know if others share DD’s views. If so, she could organise a meeting with her Student Rep(s) to get this on the agenda of the next Staff-Student Meeting (whatever it may be called). This is also a good way to reach out to her classmates.

Otherwise DD can follow procedure to contact a Student Rep on her own behalf - her opinion is valid even if it is not widely shared.

However, there is room for ambiguity in interpreting your comments on feedback. I know what I consider a proper level, and its lack is wrong. But I am in STEM where assessment is usually clear cut.

Marking UG projects and essays can be a bit of a nightmare, because if one gave all the feedback some students want, one would essentially be marking one’s own work. Gently, we can’t know how much feedback your DD wants.

How has her tutor failed to help? I’ve helped many frustrated students; the particulars are specific to each. It’s hard to know what to say without more information.

Do the lecturers or supervisors giving the coursework have office hours? My RG uni requires a weekly office hour of everyone lecturing.

One good strategy is to use office hours to clear up your understanding well in advance of starting the assignment. Another is to identify points you are stuck on or other difficulties and bring them to the office hour - not every week, but perhaps once per assignment if necessary - again, well ahead of the deadline.

I am sorry the structure of the degree programme isn’t helping the students get to know each other. Making new friends just takes a while. Getting involved in the life of the School, eg History Society or Mock Investment Club or whatever - may help.

I am very glad DD is safeguarding her health. That is the top priority. Do her needs rise to the level that the university can help her, or the Disabilities Team can advocate for her? If so I would encourage her to take all the help she is eligible for. All it does is level the playing field. And all information is confidential, shared only on a need to know basis.

Very best wishes to DD

The university will have marking scheme for all the coursework and exams. They have to. She is also allowed to see them. Obviously they should be somewhere accessible and obvious but if not then she can contact her lecturer or the admin team for her department and they can send her copies of the marking schemes for her modules.

She should contact Student Support and explain how she feels. They are there to support students.

It may be possible to transfer to another university and go straight into second year with the credits from her first year transferred over. Is this something she would consider?

I know you said you couldn’t afford for her to start over, but is there any way you could afford one extra year? This would have her graduating at 22 rather than 21 (assuming you are in England/Wales/NI) which is the same as those who go to Scottish or Irish universities which are 4 year courses.

She could either finish out this year, or try to organise a transfer for Sept now, withdraw from her current place and spend the next 8 months working to earn some money towards paying for the extra year.

My DS massively struggled last year (1st year) and he looked into transferring to another course at a different university. In the end it didn’t work out for him because he wanted to transfer to a different degree and while there was some crossover, and so some of his first year modules were relevant, he had missed a couple of core 1st year modules and they couldn’t admit him into 2nd year with 1st year modules to make up. Interestingly, it was really only 1 core module that was the sticking point and the topic is offered at A level in one of the subjects he took and got an Astar in, but his school had chosen another option from the spec to teach - if he had studied that topic at A level and therefore had a grounding in it, they said they would have been happy to forego it.

If she is looking to transfer to the same degree programme, but in a different institution, then there may be scope. When applying for 2nd year transfer the best way to do it is to contact the universities directly - it’s not a UCAS thing. Might it be worth investigating other degree programmes to see if their modules are more appealing to her, or if there is a different city/campus which appeals to her more?

What sort of subject is it? Is it one where journal articles are prevalent?

Great idea from @Geneticsbunny about the marking scheme!

I also have a DC in second year of university. The marking scheme is fantastically clear! Sometimes my DC sends me essays to read before they have been graded and I pride myself on my ability to guess what mark they'll get, just by comparing them to the very detailed marking scheme. There really are no surprises.

So tbh something sounds off about your DD's experience that needs investigation.

Sounds very similar to my child's recent experience at a RG university.

Their general attitude seemed to be students should put up, shut up and be glad they'd get a piece of paper with their name on it after three years.

My child did finish in the end but inspire if the university and not due to it, it was a solitary experience too.

Also, is there a course handbook? That can sometimes be useful in terms of expectations.

Could you say what the subject is, and you might get some more specific advice? Has she got a job at uni, or volunteering? Is she enriching her degree with careers activities? She might find fulfilment in other places than academics.

she will have a personal tutor, academic advisor, has she reached out to them about her grades for support? Or is there a student learning team or similar in her faculty - they are often a great source of support.

The marking schemes are usually pretty useless imo! Good for knowing what a particular grade means, not so good for knowing what you can do to improve. That’s where tailored feedback comes in.

Academic here. I know unis don’t always get it right but I would be astounded if she had been told not to ask for more feedback, and if so (perhaps by an inexperienced tutor?) it should be pushed back on. No course lead or Director of Teaching would find that acceptable.
I wonder if she might have misunderstood? a comment like ‘don’t ask for more feedback until you have engaged with what was written’ (which would still be rubbish but at least would explain why she thinks this).
Strongly encourage her to reach out via office hours using appropriate routes (someone who is her advisor or personal tutor - terminology varies).
As a parent myself I know that my kids sometimes get their heads down and feel like the world is against them and that’s when things might get taken out of context etc? No uni would stand by a refusal to help a student understand a disappointing grade.

I strongly agree with @EBoo80 , especially about the potential for misunderstanding.

My DC always shares feedback on essays with me and we discuss. Its quality varies: sometimes a single sentence is incredibly helpful and transformational. I do think that it's important to discuss the feedback (with your mum or dad or flatmate or course mate - basically anyone who is invested in your success in life!) in order to make sure that you have fully understood it and internalised its ramifications.

Also: my DC has had some weird feedback from TAs and it's worth going to see the academic responsible for the course if that's the case. Some TAs are very much still on a learning curve

She needs to make the effort to make new friends. I'm surprised, as a first year, she made friends with students in their final year. Why didn't she make friends on her course or in Halls? She'll be feeling lonely.

What course is she doing that means she's solitary and supposedly has no chance to get to know others on her course? Most subjects have small seminars or labs and I'm struggling to think of subjects that wouldn't have these.

She is 2/3 way through now, if at all possible she should try to complete the course at this point. She will probably be effectively finished at Easter, with exams in early summer? If she’s able to break it down, telling herself there’s only (effectively) 2 more terms after that to finish the course it may enable her to rationalise it. In the meantime focus on next steps, work experience or whatever is helpful to enable her to get a job may provide some balance and widen her social life

I don't have any experience of essay based subjects at degree level so I can't comment on that aspect.

Is this a three year degree? If so, as said by a PP, she's pretty much half way through now, so if possible the focus should be on getting her though it so she can move on.

I think a disappointing university experience is hugely difficult for young people, because of the the social expectation to be having endless fun and making your friends for life, now coupled with the considerable financial burden of student debt. Add to that an academic experience that sounds far from ideal, it's no wonder she's questioning it all.

But the reality is that life is a long game, with many, many ebbs and flows, times of contentment and fulfilment, and times of sadness and disappointment. University is just one of many phases of life, and her experience there doesn't define what the next phase of her life will be like. Encourage her to not catastrophise and to step back and regain perspective. Help her to think of it as an experience that has taught her more about herself, and will help her to understand what her next step should be.

On a practical level, a part time job (if she hasn't already got one) could be helpful in providing her with a source of connections outside of university. I made great friends working in bars etc when I was young.

Best of luck.

This is great advice. However, as a parent I would caution that students are still young and not yet experienced in presenting their POV to the adult in charge. I have coached all our DC through meeting prep with personal tutors/academics who are only human, have their own biases and (through no fault of their own) are not always able to retain pertinent information about their students. Look on it as useful life training.

@EBoo80 Academic here. I know unis don’t always get it right but I would be astounded if she had been told not to ask for more feedback, and if so (perhaps by an inexperienced tutor?) it should be pushed back on. No course lead or Director of Teaching would find that acceptable.
Be astounded. I was gobsmacked when DS came home after a year 1 low grade assessment and said 'no feedback'. I told him must be mistaken and that it wasn't learning if you didn't understand where you went wrong. As it happens a friend's child was year 3 on the same course so I asked her who said 'that's right. no feedback in year1'. I never got to the bottom of whether it was to protect staff from too many requests or was linked to strike action. Interestingly in year 2 DS received vague feedback on an assignment but his academic tutor agreed it was thin and gave him more useful pointers.

OP is your DD in a student house? Is she not friendly with the others? DS made friends on his course from walking to and from lectures. He's not one to instigate a coffee but does catch up with a couple of others in an atrium area between lectures. Could she try casual meets like these to become more friendly with others, who have the shared interest?

How far from home is the uni? Could she limp through to the end with frequent weekends at home?

My ds is at uni, although not doing an essay subject. Has your DD got an tutor/academic advisor/director of studies? There must be someone who she could ask for support. After all, you are paying a lot of money in fees.

I too am gobsmacked. Was the lack of feedback part of strike action? Gently, are you and your friend positive this is correct?

Because if the answers are ‘no’ and truly ‘yes’ the university isn’t worthy of the name.