Advice on Entry to Italian Unis for Year Out

[Juja]

DD is studying Modern Languages and plans to spend next academic year 2025/26 in Rome. She has been in touch with Sapienza University and they say to join courses in Italian she needs to take the Italian Entrance Exam. She is hoping to take modules in law.

Has anyone any experience with obtaining admission to Italian Universities? The tests seem like II+ or SAT.

Her Uni (Oxford) doesn't have bilateral agreements with Italian Unis and no assistance is provided - students have to make their own arrangements. Seems bizarre given there are 40 Italian students each year but hey ho...

I was in your daughter’s shoes long ago. I second the suggestion of going for modules rather than a course. I studied at a private uni and you paid per module. I hope your daughter has a great time.

Also - absolutely nothing wrong with Oxford not curating everybody’s year abroad experience. I think having to figure things out yourself is formative. Also, how could they, it’s essentially extracurricular!

I think you may be underestimating the complexity of visas in the post-Brexit world.

@shmivorytower No university wholly curates the experience but at the best unis it is compulsory, (or was!) DD did work that gained credits, so not sure how it’s extracurricular!

Most DC do have the benefit of dedicated exchange staff advising them (and overseas students coming here) and a MFL Dept maintaining links with the overseas unis. As an example, DD was the first group to go to Geneva for MFL. The uni already had strong science links and extended this to MFL. It was a huge benefit to DD that they did this. However students have to apply for accommodation or arrange private accommodation and sort out their courses. The hosting unis can be very helpful and organised or a bit chaotic (Italy). DD certainly did modules not a whole first year curriculum as it wasn’t needed. Modules were tested though. I don’t think the current system helps anyone but I’m not sure why unis don’t maintain links. Brexit is a massive problem,

DDs friend did do the whole curriculum at a French Grand Ecole in engineering. This was year 3 of a 4 year MEng. It totally replaced the y3 curriculum. For MFL students there are usually different requirements but making it far more difficult is not helpful to anyone, engineers or MFL students!

@Ceramiq Nor am I - DD went to the information evening and the only clear piece of information was that there would be no support with visas from Oxford University - breathtaking given the year abroad is a compulsory part of the course.

The teaching at Oxford DD has found amazing but the lack of support for the year abroad is a significant blind spot.

@shmivorytower i too think not being handed all logistics on a plate is good but sometimes there is a limit to the amount of character building one needs!

@Juja I agree it’s too much. Oxford know the new requirements but I’m amazed they step back so much. It’s as if they expect students to have connections in Italy. That might be a reflection of who is taking Italian unfortunately.

The info from DDs uni says the host uni abroad sends visa info. The student enrolls via their system first.

Maybe Ed Llewellyn, the British Ambassador to Italy, should be made aware of Oxford's cavalier attitude to their Italian undergraduates' year abroad logistics? IIRC he read Modern Languages at Oxford in the 1980s and he's incredibly engaged in improving the UK-Italy relationship. He might have some useful ideas (or ask some minion to think up some useful ideas).

@Ceramiq You would think the mega brains at Oxford could do that. Does anyone ever dare ask why they don’t have uni links in Italy besides Sienna?

@Juja As a Plan B has your DD considered Genoa? My DD did her year abroad there a few years ago. It is a large city, on the Ligurian coast, and pretty low cost of living - DD shared a flat in a 15th / 16th century building in the old city which I think was once a palace, and her rent was considerably less than her rent in Leeds. It was (by Italian standards) pretty well organised for foreign students, with a good social life. A quick search on Google suggests there is at least one rowing club.

I have nothing useful to add to your research @Juja other than to wish your DD the best of luck in her applications, knowing she is super bright and resourceful in navigating through this.

What is apparent, as a parent of a current MFL student is that all MFL programmes are not equal, and the student really needs to ensure they explore options well that meet their own individual needs, like your daughter is doing, but remain flexible too.

For mine, currently on her YA, whilst she knows the standard of her ab initio language would have been higher had she studied at say, Exeter or St Andrews, they didn’t have the partner relationships with where she wanted to study internationally. But she had to switch from out from one country to another due to regional conflicts. Her learning experience and teaching hours received in Egypt were vastly different to those that chose Morocco, she got 9 hours of language study alone on top of the other modules of interest, with an immersion experience that has had a profound impact; I guess living in a small geography with 20mil people would have. So inadvertently she got a better experience than her peers.

Very much like the industrial placement thread, a YA student from UK really has very little support in general since Brexit, which is why DD ultimately chose to study in Ireland. Yes not having an EU passport means the student has to endure the visa processes for stays >90 days, but access to Erasmus and the sign off on Study Programmes that meet the course criteria results in accessibility for all (subject to their performance), not just MFL students, with a little more structure around both placements and academic areas of study via one semester or full YA.

I add this for prospective MFL students who are considering their options, given how programmes of language study are already challenging before navigating their Year Abroad! Hard work (un necessarily so), but so valuable for those that do them.

I’m sure she’s already done this OP, but definitely engage with Y4 returners on their experiences and advice.

@PumpkinKnitter that is an excellent suggestion - thank you - good about the rowing club...DD says she'll have a look. We had a holiday in Cinque Terre two years ago and went through the outskirts of Genoa en route but didn't have a chance to stop by but didn't have the chance to call by. By all accounts it is lovely.

The "brains" at Oxford won't have the diplomatic ties or political will of the Ambassador in Rome.

And, thinking about the academics I know who work in MFL at Oxford (not Italian, sadly) and in RG universities, most of them are not deeply interested in the language acquisition aspect of their undergraduates' experience. MFL academics spend their lives deep in niche cultural esoteria and feel above mere considerations of language acquisition.

@Ceramiq I think DD felt her Italian department worked hard to maintain links. Lots of them were Italian anyway! As they are at Oxford I think. It’s also clear that the unis here maintain links in all sorts of subjects. As I said earlier, engineering and physics. MFL benefitted from this. The overseas unis are “owned” by a department here. So although a Grande Ecole for Engineering is not right for MFL but CERN and Geneva were ideal for MFL at Geneva. This was for French but links were forged. I don’t understand why Oxford don’t do this. Certainly there are some good unis in Italy but none at Oxford standard.

Also language acquisition is not the only reason to go. It’s a cultural exchange. So lots of experiences should add to the language acquisition. It’s also why modules are taken and not a complete first year. Other experiences are very valuable.

@TizerorFizz International university links/exchange agreements are not straightforward to either create or maintain and often depend on personal relationships which was one of the reasons for Erasmus: to create a support framework for many more universities/departments to engage with international counterparts on student exchanges. Oxford is indeed notoriously difficult about engaging on student exchanges, believing that not many universities are sufficiently selective to warrant some sort of deal.

@Ceramiq Well the personal links is what I was getting at. Certainly with Italy. Clearly losing the benefits of Erasmus has left us bereft. Of course Oxford students could go via the British Council and be a teaching assistant. Maybe that’s an easier route?

Oxford do have quite a long list of partner unis but only Sienna in Italy. Mostly in France, Spain and Germany but two in the Czech Republic. However it’s very much about research and not undergrad exchange. I think it’s very disappointing.

@TizerorFizz I agree - I suspect that the British Council language assistant role is going to be increasingly attractive as a MFL year abroad option in the future. It has some structure and support behind it. Though unfortunately language assistants sometimes end up in some pretty small town locations which defies part of the point of a cultural immersion programme.

@Ceramiq Absolutely. My DD hated the idea of it. A friend of hers was stuck in a village and managed to move into DDs lodging in Bologna to get some life! She then commuted to the school. Living with a family suits some but making friends your own age can be tough.

@TizerorFizz Yes, I wouldn't have wanted do that for my MFL year abroad (not that I had the option as I did two languages and the British Council language assistant role was for a whole year) and I certainly wouldn't want my DC to do that. They would be temperamentally far less suited than I was in any case.

I think when DD went she could have done BC for joint honours. One semester in each country but an earlier start I think. Not sure. I do remember a few of her friends had last minute changes though.

@Ceramiq While very much still an option I've also heard that many British Council language assistants end up in remote locations. It is down to individual students but not something my DD is keen on.

@TizerorFizz I agree - very disappointing. DD had a friend staying who is a year ahead at Oxford and is heading to Sienna. They are close friends but very different personalities. I'm sure friend will have a great time so in the meantime DD keeps pressing on with the Italian Uni bureaucracy...

The real challenge is the uncertainty - as calls for admissions are until March / April and decisions with the letter confirming a place not until August so there is little time to get through the visa process. I think she might apply to more than one Uni...

@Juja The language assistants can be remote. Hence DDs friend moving to Bologna and commuting. DD just didn’t want that so uni was always first choice.

Yes. Maybe apply to several. Bologna is a decent enough place to be and has lots of private accommodation for exchange students. It’s not huge but has a strong student community. Padua is another good uni. Bocconi is private - not sure about exchanges there. DDs friends liked Milan.

Italy is not just bureaucratic - it also has a big dose of chaos!

@TizerorFizz Bocconi appears to have an enrolment system to its year abroad programme that allows individual students to apply (no guarantee of acceptance) but it's quite expensive. Bocconi is far less chaotic than an Italian state university and its undergraduate degrees are extremely competitive, attracting excellent students. It's also a well respected HE brand with CV appeal.

@Ceramiq Yes. I know it’s status - that’s why I thought of it. It’s such a shame Oxford doesn’t welcome exchange students from unis like that though.

TBH, while Bocconi is very selective, it is not as selective as Oxford. It's way, way harder to get into Oxford for E&M or Law than into Bocconi.