Accept RG or non RG offer

[KingCatMeowInSpace]

DC been offered a place at an RG uni and a place at non RG Uni - he prefers course content of non RG Uni but likes the prestige/location and course is ok at the RG one. It's much more of a vocational course at the non RG Uni which they don't do at the RG one. An example would be a Film studies course at the RG Uni and a Film making course at the non RG uni. If did the RG course he could then do a 1 year post grad at the non RG uni in film making but would still need to enjoy the 4 year RG degree or it'll be a LONG 4 years. He thinks either option would be ok but he knows he would enjoy the non RG course content better. Any advice?

Do what you enjoy, life’s too short!

He needs to go where he feels he will get the most out of his degree. He's there for three years at least, paying over £27,000 in tuition fees so he needs to be happy where he is. There are a few careers where RG may be better but unless he's choosing one of those it makes no difference.

I think it depends on the specifics of uni, course and career.

Don’t make a decision yet - it’s very early!

They will hold offer holder days after Christmas, focused more specifically on the course. Get him to go to both of those before he decides.

I think he should do the course he is likely to enjoy most, because that is where he is most likely to thrive.

A good degree carries greater weight than a good pedigree, and I write that as a former RG admissions tutor. Many job applications omit or expunge references to the alma mater, anyway. And RG is largely a branding exercise, anyway. Some excellent universities are not RG and there are pockets of excellence to be found in many, many universities. Employers know this.

One possible caveat would be if there is a way to detect how many students from the two degree programmes are working in roles that would suit DS. Statistics on progression to graduate roles are readily available but I am not sure about these more specific data. It would take a keen School level officer to track alumni, and publicise the results.

(I imagine Film Studies students would have an easier time progressing to eg the Civil Service, a PGCE, an MA in Art or Art History (could be wrong there) etc but I am not sure those are of relevance for DS. Roles where the RG brand and/or the more traditionally academic approach taken in Film Studies may carry some weight. But would DS care about that?)

Best wishes to him

Another piece of good advice from @AelinAG

At the offer holder days DS can ask about employment results, if they are not presented. Actually it is a bit of a red flag if they are not presented

I would do the practical course.

When I was at uni my housemate did a media studies course and she always regretted it and said she should have gone to another uni to do film production instead. The only reason she didn’t was because it was the year that fees jumped to 9k.

I studied Education at a RG, and spent three years surrounded by high achievers who had been steered there by school/parents when what they really wanted was a Primary Teaching degree, but those were generally only available at the non-RGs.

Whilst they largely seemed to enjoy their time at uni, I very much got the sense most of them felt they were marking time until they could get to the PGCE afterwards, and would often complain about what they felt was ‘irrelevant’ module content.

If the practical side is what he wants, then go for the practical degree.

This.

He could look at the employment destinations of recent graduates.

But I’d also say, he shouldn’t overlook the preference of location. Spending 3 years in a town/part of the country where you don’t want to be could be pretty grim.

I think he needs to do his research. Uni prospecti sometimes promise things which don’t always happen, particularly when it comes to the more vocational/practical aspects of a course, IMO. So, they might say something about ‘opportunity to work in state of the art studio’, but there’ll only be one so only the third years ever get to use it and that not routinely. That’s just an example.

So, yes, look at employment outcomes as @YellowAsteroid says. Also student satisfaction data.

I think it depends on whether he wants an academic degree in Film Studies that may govern a broad range of post grad and career options or a more practical degree in actual film making, with links to the industry, because he is actually aiming to try and get into it afterwards?

ie. This is not about RG v non RG, it’s about an academic v a more vocational qualification? It’s really down to your DC to decide whether he was a general foundation because he’s unsure about careers, or a specialist qualification because he’s decided?

My DD has been um-ing and ahh-ing about applying to do animation or illustration. Both are precarious careers. But she’s also bright and predicted As, and very nervous of wedding herself to a career path at the moment that is competitive, precarious, vulnerable to AI developments, (and very underpaid given the debt she’ll accrue), so she’s decided to go for a general academic degree [classics] at an RG uni to give herself a firm foundation and, if she still fancies a career in the arts afterwards, she’ll apply to do a Masters. Been an agonising year working through the 5million routes and options.

Wish your DC the best of luck choosing - and as other PPs say, no rush just yet. He’s got time to weigh it up.

I thought that @KingCatMeowInSpace suggested Film Studies (practice or theory degrees) as an analogy to the actual subject her DS is looking at.

But if it is Film Studies, then a degree which is more practical or vocational won't necessarily give him an easier route into the industry. It'll be about his network, his internships and placements, his own entrepreneurial push.

He could do a theoretical degree in Film Studies at an RG university and go all-out to work in student-led film making, or get involved with his university's student television station (many universities have them) and take up all the extra-curricular film-making/technical opportunities his university, and the town/city it's located in, offers.

He could do a vocationally oriented more practical Film degree, and not much else, relying on its practical teaching.

I think I know which degree is likely to land him more employment opportunities ...

But, anyway, in the film industry, whichever degree, he'll need to start at the bottom.

Choose the course he would enjoy more, RG isn't that important tbh

@KingCatMeowInSpace I wanted to add something into the mix here for you to think about, I hope that's ok. I used to work in the film and TV world and young people who were coming up had one of two things a) they were like pit bulls in terms of ambition, energy and the ability to take on any job willingly or b) they were rich and extremely well connected already. So if your son fits the a) mould he would be best going for the most practical course at the non-RG place and if he is the b) mould he can do either. If he is not a or b he would be best suited for the RG course so the prestige of that would carry him in the early years into film and TV companies who might not otherwise notice him. I hope this is helpful.

Excellent insight @OhFredisFat

But I still wonder if @KingCatMeowInSpace was using Film Studies as a parallel example, but not the actual course her DS is looking at:

An example would be a Film studies course at the RG Uni and a Film making course at the non RG uni.

It might help get good quality adive @KingCatMeowInSpace if you could confirm whether or not it is Film Studies? In such a subject, quite frankly, I'd say it's London or not London, excpt for the Bournemouth illustration/animation degree.

Also the confidence (plus funding) that @OhFredisFat describes! I have a sibling in the industry, who tells me to warn my students that if they're interested in film industry, they need to start as a gofer, no matter what/where their degree is (I work in a cognate field).

@YellowAsteroid Oh you're right, I see that now "an example would be" oh well, I don't know if we'll find out what it is...

But your advice about the film industry is spot on, nevertheless!

Thanks everyone - do all Unis do offer holder days? Are they held in individual departments? He definitely wants to work on a practical level in the industry rather than progress into teaching or civil service etc. Film studies/film production was just an example but it's very similar to that.

He definitely believes it's the right career for him and is very enthusiastic and happy to take any opportunities and although is very academic, he definitely is more excited and enthusiastic about practical
tasks.

RG is a very outdated idea now. Lots of the best ranking UK unis aren't in it anymore.

Go with what they really want to do. It's three years of their life.

But also, this

Universities hold offer holder days and each department will have various activities. Offer holders will be invited.

Your DS could do some research via social media. My place regularly has students take over its Instagram feed with the opportunity of interacting with followers via questions etc.

If it is creative production of some kind, RG means nothing (RG means little in teaching terms anyway, it’s just a research funding cabal). Far better to take a place at a specialist creative arts university with a good reputation for practice, intellectual rigour and good networking opportunities (UAL, or oddly enough Falmouth).
ETA ‘oddly’ about Falmouth purely because of its location which one would imagine makes the networking aspect difficult!

Hmmmmm, I work in a cognate area, and I'm not sure about Falmouth frankly. Some of the policies they've pursued since the gutting of Dartington (one of the greatest crimes against creative industries training in this country) don't give me confidence. I've seen too many CVs from colleagues under threat of redundancy there in the last 5 years ...

Sadly, for the creative industries, the further one is from London, Birmingham, Manchester or Leeds, or Edinburgh & Glasgow, the more difficult it is to really parlay the possible networking advantages of a practice-based degree.

The RG thing in my field actually predicts excellence in teaching ... we teach our research, and for my colleagues who are professional practitioners as well as lecturers, this offers many many opportunities for students. Out of the 10 departments regularly topping all the league tables, about 8 are RG.

@YellowAsteroid am feeling a little less guilty about diverting my DD into an academic degree. The plan is that she can do summer placements and short courses at UAL and if she is still set on a creative career she can do a Masters in animation or illustration depending where she is at that point. And wll have a good academic degree from an RG uni as her foundation.

Am a PhD student in creative writing and have no idea whether my director of studies or supervisor will still be employed even though I am in my final year - it is that uncertain and precarious - but I have the privilege of doing this as a very mature student who will lose nothing career-wise/financially in taking the punt on the degree [my debt will be written off in less than 5 years…]